Tracing the impossible?

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by daisy1942, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    I am not exactly sure what a CRS 10 is but I am guessing that it stands for Continuous Record of Service. Presumably it is the Officer's equivalent of a Seaman's Continuous Certificate of Discharge book. This was carried by all merchant seaman and shows a record of all voyages undertaken. They are very detailed and carry a description of the seaman. Here is an example from my collection.

    Attached Files:

  2. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    I am able to confirm Dad's looks nothing like that whatsoever! What I have looks like it has been recorded on the fronts and backs of A5 sized cards. However, as I stated I am fairly certain it is only a partial copy. I believe the female clerk was trying to protect my husband from the news that his Dad did not have an exemplary record.
  3. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Q1. So are you now saying that the marriage certificate you posted at #42 has nothing to do with Dominic's parents since this is a marriage between a Dominic Cunningham and a Mary Casey.
    Q2. Dominic Cuningham Casey (Dad)'s marriage certificate although it mentions Gunner Royal Artillery also says 'Now engineer in war service'. Seeing this is against a repeat of his name it seems to me that when he applied for his marriage licence he declared his occupation as Bricklayer (Apprentice)/Gunner Royal Artillery and although that was his intention he never joined the RA. By the time of his marriage he had joined the Merchant Navy and the entry was amended. Does that make sense?

  4. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    There must have been a Central Register kept by the Board of Trade, probably in card form that corresponded with each individual Discharge book. Dominic would have had a portable version similar to mine, which if lost, could be replicated from central records.
  5. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    I do not have any reason to believe he was in the Merchant Navy in 1940.
    Cardiff stated that there was no record card for him prior to 1944.
    I do not have any proof of any training as an engineer.
    Dad did describe (as part of his training somehwere) he was required to take a large truck (Scammel??) that was towing a field gun downhill. He was required to control the vehicle by changing down through the gears and was not allowed to use the brakes. He was a very good shot and could field strip a 303 rifle. On one of his ships in the Med he was asked to man a deck gun after the gunner had been killed.
  6. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member


    I think that it says, "Now engaged in War Service" which would seem to imply that he was now a gunner on active service. It seems strange to be both an apprentice brick layer and a gunner in the Royal Artillery and the only way he could have been both at the same time is if he was in the Territorial Army. I think that we should investigate R.A Territorial Battery's based in Glasgow for a possible unit.

    The other thing that strikes me is that going from being an apprentice brick layer to becoming a ship's engineer is a very unlikely career path.

    timuk likes this.
  7. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    If Dominic Casey was in the Territorial Royal Artillery, it is very possible that he would take a driving test on an army lorry, would be trained to fire a rifle and being in the R.A, would know how to fire a deck gun.
  8. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Why would the female clerk do that?
    This is where your bits fall apart you make assumptions and boys own stuff
  9. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Thanks Simon. Yes definitely 'engaged'. Apologies - Specsavers here I come.

    CL1 likes this.
  10. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    Dad never had a settled career even post war. At various times he was a school caretaker. an electrician in a major London store and he worked in films as lighting crew amongst others.
    This is where people will have to take my word for it! i was there! This woman got two large rugby types from a back office somewhere in an attempt to encourage us to go away without Dad's papers. When we refused to go, one of the men took by husband aside and explained to him that Dad had been in trouble a number of times during his merchant navy career and this woman had had problems with other members of the public accusing her of falsifying records!
  11. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    Here is a possible Royal Artillery Territorial Unit that Dominic Casey might have joined.

    80 (Lowland) Field Regiment T.A. Glasgow 1938 - 52 Division. UK 1940-4 - 52 (Lowland) Inf Div. NW Europe 1944-5. 52. They appear to have been stationed in the U.K until 1944.

    There were three other T.A. (Lowland) Field Regiments, the 129th, the 130th and the 131st. I am not sure if they had their depots in Glasgow.

    129 (Lowland) Field Regiment. T.A. Of 78 Field Regiment Jungle Field Regiment /43.
    UK 1939-42 - 15 (Scottish) Infantry Division. India 1942-5 - 14 & 17 Indian Infantry Divisions. Burma 1942 - 14 Indian Division. Burma 1943-5 - 17 Indian Division. Disbanded 1947

    130 (Lowland) Field Regiment. T.A. Of 79 Field Regiment Assault Field Regiment 8/43.
    UK 1939-42 - 15 (Scottish) Infantry Division. India 1942-3 - 14 & 36 (Indian) Infantry Division
    Burma 1944-5 - 36 Infantry Division. 330 Medium Regiment

    131 (Lowland) Field Regiment. T.A. Of 80 Field Regiment. UK 1939-44 - 15 (Scottish) Infantry Division. NW Europe 1944-5 - 15 (Scottish) Infantry Division. Disbanded 1947.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  12. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    No need to apologise.
  13. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    where was the office downtown Sicily
  14. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Just an observation here but
    Dominic Michael Stringer and Dominic Cunningham Casey, one born Eire ? One born Scotland ? One born 1919? The other 1922?
    Two different people?
    There is a way to stop this all in its tracks and get the facts ,the wedding certificate/church notification states `RA Gunner` ? TA ? Regular or even home guard he will have a record of service. From a recent post on roots chat you have stated;-

    "Dominic Cunningham Casey was born in 14.4.1922 in Glasgow. He married Elizabeth Smith on 30.12.1940 in Glasgow. His wedding certificate states "gunner RA now on war service". I have tried but cannot find anyone of that name in the RA records "

    You have a name ,a date of birth so apply to the MoD and get Dominic Cunningham Casey`s record then you will have all the proof you need no speculation all in black and white. You can lay this one to bed for £30 !


    Ps On this other forum you are enquiring about THE ROYAL ENGINEERS . You do make things difficult for yourself !
    Dominic Michael Stringer and Dominic Cunningham Casey (World War Two) - RootsChat.Com
    Tricky Dicky, High Wood and CL1 like this.
  15. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Fifth Register of Merchant Seaman's Service (CRS 10 forms).
    The service of individual merchant seamen and lists the ships on which they served with relevant dates.
    The CRS 10s give personal details of each seaman. This information about service was extracted from ship's logs and crew agreements lodged by ship owners. The information contained in the register is used to verify entitlement to wartime service medals.

    The CRS10 is that Central Register from 1941 - 1972. It is not infallible and it depended on how diligent the shore-side clerks were in recording the information from the various logs and agreements that were presented. Not all records survive and some may be misfiled at TNA. Dominic Michael Stringer's CRS10 does exist but unusually does not show his discharge book number and shows no entries for 1941 and 1942 [edit* and 1943]. The other problem is that in 1944 he was serving on Panamanian registered ships and crew agreements for those are obviously not held in the UK archives.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
    High Wood and daisy1942 like this.
  16. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    In the light of so many years research I have to question the idea of two people. Should it prove that these are two different people it will something of a relief for all concerned.

    Since 1979 my husband has been trying to prove that his father, who he knew under the name Dominic Michael Stringer was UK born. The reason for needing to prove this is because he was born in Barbados. Without being able to prove his father was British, he was unable to obtain a British Passport.
    We spent hours at St Catherine House, as it was then, trying to trace a birth certificate without success. As time as progressed and long distance research has become much easier through the internet. We have repeated the research on a regular basis over the past FORTY YEARS! We have joined various family research websites such as Ancestry. We have asked professional and semi professional to search for us. We have never traced a birth certificate for Dominic Michael Stringer ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD! To that end we have had to assume that the d.o.b. of 1919 is unlikely to be correct. Further, we approached M.O.D. with that name and date of birth and they have no record of him.
    Further, during that time we have NEVER found a birth or death certificate of John Patrick Stringer who died in Glasgow in the 1950's.
    Undoubtedly, Dad had a strong Glaswegian accent, He knew parts of Glasgow very well, in spite of returning there only once post WW2. My husband has spoken to various friends of Dad's who knew him in Glasgow, We have birth certificates of people who siad they went to school with him. The Glasgow link is strong if circumstantial.

    The information about Royal Artillery is by comparison is very new. By comparison, I have had very little time to research this aspect. Yes, we can apply to M.o.D. for military records for Dominic Cunningham Casey and perhaps we should. However, if there are no military records for Dominic Cunningham Casey either, it does not get us any further forward. It merely eliminates one aspect.

    As every piece of information we gleaned from stories that Dad told have had a kernel of truth in them, I wonder if a lack of military record would go someway to confirm what Dad said about having been in trouble in Glasgow and that his brother had got him out of Glasgow "in a hurry". It is something to consider.....
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
  17. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    Thank you Hugh,
    I have stated previous that his CRS 10 appears to begin in 1944. I am currently waiting for a response from some American Archives that are trying to track log books for Wellandoc and Delamar.

    This has been one of the perennial problems with Dad's story - having to try to track backwards from his CRS 10. Also, it is why I started trying to figure out what he was doing in Singapore in 1942 and Trinidad in 1942/3.

    Now there is the potential that he may or may not have been in the Royal Artillery. All I can do is to keep chasing!
    Hugh MacLean likes this.
  18. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Yes, you are right to be checking the US records for WELLANDOC and DELMAR as they were under the US Maritime Commission.

    daisy1942 likes this.
  19. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    No! This was at the office of the Registrar General of Merchant Shipping and Seamen in Cardiff, shortly after Dad died.
  20. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    All of the above.
    Both threads seem unusually complex, with multiple names for the main participants.
    My admiration for the few Pals who have doggedly persevered on either thread.
    Me? My brain hurts thinking how one Poster can have such a confused family.... now we're joining them..............

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