the US & UK merely assisted Russia in WW2

Discussion in 'General' started by T-34, Dec 27, 2007.

  1. T-34

    T-34 Discharged - Nazi

    '

    ...thus the victor in WW2 was Russia -
    meanwhile the US and UK were merely a help providers.
    agreed ?





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  2. A Potts

    A Potts Member

    so the victor in WW2 was Russia -
    meanwhile the US and UK were merely help providers.
    agreed ?

    T-34 let's get one issue out of the way. World War Two was fought on two fronts - namely Europe and Asia (Pacific). Did Russia (Soviet Union) win the war in Asia? I would suggest that the US/Russia/Commwealth did. The US and Commonwealth contributed most to the defeat of Japan (in particular the US).

    Did Russia win the war in Europe? I would again suggest that Russia/US/Commonwealth did.

    I think that what you are impyling is whether Russia was the main contributor to the defeat of Nazi Germany. In that respect you are correct, especially in men, materials and more importantly German dead.

    However, what annoys me is two attitudes; one is forgetting the massive contribution of Russia, which mainly comes from ignorant UK/US sources.

    The other is that Russia (which comes from Russian sources) won the war and could have done so single handedly. Remember there was incredible effort by the allies on the Western and North African Front. In particular Airpower. Not to mention Lend Lease.

    Please remember that every committed German Soldier killed by the US/Commonwealth was one that 'Russia's' sons did not have to deal with.

    It was significant and when the logistics of Germany's war of having to fight on two fronts. It ALL added to breaking the Nazi Regime in Germany.
     
    Christos likes this.
  3. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    Historians would also argue that the Soviet effort in the East could also not have succeeded without logistical help supplied by the Western Allies... perhaps you have never heard of the Arctic Convoys?
     
  4. T-34

    T-34 Discharged - Nazi

    ... the logistics of Germany's war of having to fight on two fronts...


    the 2nd front was opened in 1943 -
    by the moment when outcome of war was already clear as Wermacht's back was broken at Stalingrad.

    as for LendLease and the Allies' actions in Asia, Pacific and Western Europe -
    well, as i said above: they amount to an assistance, but not to a co-victory.
     
  5. T-34

    T-34 Discharged - Nazi

    ... perhaps you have never heard of the Arctic Convoys?

    and what did those ''Arctic Convoys'' transport to Russia - troops, i suppose ???...


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  6. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    Hmm - historians might also argue that troops win battles, but logistics win wars.

    You clearly have an axe to grind, but it is a shame that you do so here. There would be few here who would deny Soviet Russia's contribution to the war, but to claim that Russia alone won the Second World War is simplistic to say the least.
     
  7. A Potts

    A Potts Member

    the 2nd front was opened in 1943 -
    by the moment when outcome of war was already clear as Wermacht's back was broken at Stalingrad.

    as for LendLease and the Allies' actions in Asia, Pacific and Western Europe -
    well, as i said above: they amount to an assistance, but not to a co-victory.

    T-34 I respectfully submit it was not just 'assistance'. It was a desire to help Russia win the war. Trust me the US/Commonwealth would not have provided it and Stalin would not have wasted his logistics accepting it if was merely assistance. The Soviet Union was at times in serious trouble and the Nazi threat was not stopped offensively until 1943.

    I will say this to you personally, I am proud to have friends from Russia and the Ukraine (we lived together in London). I know that you are a very proud people and so you should be about World War Two.

    The suffering of the Russian people in World War Two is unparalleled in history.
     
  8. T-34

    T-34 Discharged - Nazi

    ... to claim that Russia alone won the Second World War is simplistic to say the least.

    i didn't say it alone won the WW2,
    i said it won this war with assistance given by the US and Britain.
     
  9. T-34

    T-34 Discharged - Nazi

    ... The suffering of the Russian people in World War Two is unparalleled in history.

    nevermind, the Nazis paid for that alright.
     
  10. A Potts

    A Potts Member

    i didn't say it alone won the WW2,
    i said it won this war with assistance given by the US and Britain.

    T-34 make yourself more clear. I wildly assume that english is not your first language (but your english is good). We assumed you stated that Russia won the war (without help).

    Also remember that this is a mesage board with mainly British/Australia/US/New Zealand members. We may not see the war as a Russian would see it. However we are happy to argue about it.

    Thanks,

    Aaron
     
    von Poop likes this.
  11. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    and what did those ''Arctic Convoys'' transport to Russia - troops, i suppose ???...
    .

    As usual T-34, this is the kind of sniggering inference that precludes people having a sensible debate with you.

    What troops the US and the British Commonwealth could have spared in those days to assist Russia would have jeopardised what was happening in every other theatre around the world.

    Russia was not prepared for war so it signed a pact with Germany looking after its own interest at the detriment of Britain, France and the rest of the allied nations by agreeing not to assist those other nations if Germany invaded its neighbour Poland. Stalin asked for and received a piece of the pie that was half of Poland.

    America was preparing for war but was not ready when it came in 1941. Britain and the Commonwealth forces were fighting in many theatres and just had its head above water.

    The allies did not supply troops however they supplied nearly every other subsequent product to ensure that your men and women who were able to fight could be clothed and fed. They supplied the locomotives and tracks and rolling stock to move them and trucks to get them to where the battle was.

    Then in North Africa the defeat of the Afrika Corps saw 250,000 Axis troops surrender.

    Then there was the bombing of Germany where over 120,000 American, British and Commonwealth forces lost their lives delivering those payloads that decimated Germany's ability to continue adequate war production.

    This was not just assistance, it was a working partnership that should be respected, not demeaned.
     
  12. 4th wilts

    4th wilts Discharged

    it would have been a long walk for a lot of very hungry soviet soldiers,without ammunition,spam,corned beef,boots,lorries to carry them,lorries to carry the food,ammunition etc,petrol for the lorries,steel,locamotives for the destroyed russian ones,new track etc,destroyed by the retreating germans,grond attack aircraft,fighters and tanks.i do not have any stats but stalingrad to berlin on foot is rather a long walk,remember comrade,not all brave,tough soviet soldiers went to germany on the back of a t34.yes,a long walk that.yours,lee.
     
  13. A Potts

    A Potts Member

    As usual T-34, this is the kind of sniggering inference that precludes people having a sensible debate with you.

    What troops the US and the British Commonwealth could have spared in those days to assist Russia would have jeopardised what was happening in every other theatre around the world.

    Russia was not prepared for war so it signed a pact with Germany looking after its own interest at the detriment of Britain, France and the rest of the allied nations by agreeing not to assist those other nations if Germany invaded its neighbour Poland. Stalin asked for and received a piece of the pie that was half of Poland.

    America was preparing for war but was not ready when it came in 1941. Britain and the Commonwealth forces were fighting in many theatres and just had its head above water.

    The allies did not supply troops however they supplied nearly every other subsequent product to ensure that your men and women who were able to fight could be clothed and fed. They supplied the locomotives and tracks and rolling stock to move them and trucks to get them to where the battle was.

    Then in North Africa the defeat of the Afrika Corps saw 250,000 Axis troops surrender.

    Then there was the bombing of Germany where over 120,000 American, British and Commonwealth forces lost their lives delivering those payloads that decimated Germany's ability to continue adequate war production.

    This was not just assistance, it was a working partnership that should be respected, not demeaned.

    Spidge,

    That is too harsh on T-34.

    I have met many Russians and this is a common point put to me and often in much harsher terms.

    T-34 states that he is from Moscow. I appreciate that his view may be offensive.

    However, I think that it is much better to give reasoned opinion (not to say that most of your post was not reasoned and correct) and debate if need be. If it is too silly to argue then let it languish.

    I don't think it was 'sniggering interference'.
     
  14. raf

    raf Senior Member

    i posted a thread recently. were i work with slovaks...they to said the war was wonin the east...

    maybe its a eastern block thing??? and there teaching of wwII
     
  15. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist

    Here we go again............:rolleyes:
     
  16. 4th wilts

    4th wilts Discharged

    i saw a professor erikson on t.v one day,talking about the percentage of the german army fighting on the eastern front.does anyone know how much of the german armed forces were drawn from east to west after overlord.yours,lee.
     
  17. A Potts

    A Potts Member

    i saw a professor erikson on t.v one day,talking about the percentage of the german army fighting on the eastern front.does anyone know how much of the german armed forces were drawn from east to west after overlord.yours,lee.

    I don't know the figures after Overlord. But I remember the rough figures were 5,500,000 german soldiers killed in the war. Of which 90% were attributed to the USSR and about half of those occured in the last 18 months.

    Bear with me I could be wrong.
     
  18. T-34

    T-34 Discharged - Nazi

    ... We assumed you stated that Russia won the war (without help)...

    no, actually i meant that help provided by the Allies doesn't entitle them for the status of being a victors in WW2 ; helpers - yes, but not a victors.


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  19. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    for what this thread, huh? war have no winners. dot.
     
  20. A Potts

    A Potts Member

    no, actually i meant that help provided by the Allies doesn't entitle them for the status of being a victors in WW2 ; helpers - yes, but not a victors.


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    T - 34 they were not 'helpers'. Maybe something is lost in translation. However, I think I know what you are trying to say.

    I will ask you this simple question:

    Who were the Commonwealth 'helping' before Hitler invaded the Soviet Union?
     

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