X lists (Service Records)

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by Kieron Hill, Jun 13, 2009.

  1. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member

    Is there another page, i.e anything on the reverse of this page, or anything further in the record which may clarify.

    It is likely that the dates shown as being in hospital could be when he was shot. Without any other corroborating evidence, e.g. a diary, it is as you say impossible to say.

    Mark
     
  2. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member

    Regarding X(8), I just found this:


    X-8

    All non-effective held at Base Reinforcement Units whose return to the UK has been authorized

    http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/pages/military-abbreviations.aspx#x

    Mark
     
  3. GreenTree

    GreenTree Member

    In case it helps anyone, I have reason to believe 'Y' list 'C' means in prison.
    :omg:
     
  4. Eddie Mayell

    Eddie Mayell Member

    Hi, I'm playing catch up here, I have an interesting question and have read through all the thread on this 'X' List enlightenment but can any one solve this mystery?? I have my Fathers records and he has a listing which refers to 'X'(iib)???? I cant find any reference to what 'X'(iib) means??
     
  5. RosyRedd

    RosyRedd Senior Member

    I've not seen x(iib) before, but I would say it is still relating to sickness/injury.

    On one of the service records I have it's written x(4a) this was for training even though it's very often only written as x(iv) x(4).
     
  6. Eddie Mayell

    Eddie Mayell Member

    Hiya, If you pop over to the talk about 2nd Survey Unit you will see that I've posted quite a bit there including my Dads service record first page. If you take a look you'll see about two thirds down the record of 'X'(iib) written in the left hand column? Ah! Here it is. IMG_4071 (Large).JPG
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  7. RosyRedd

    RosyRedd Senior Member

    Hi Eddie - I see what you mean :) I don't know what the 'b' is for, but it still generally appears to mean it for sickness/injury - (posted to 69 IGH - 69 Indian General Hospital)
     
  8. Eddie Mayell

    Eddie Mayell Member

    Yes! and also 17/2/44 when transferred to 40 I.C.D. The only reference else where to a X list following a letter is 'X'(iiib) which I believe means Missing?? Or POW??? Am I correct. It's an interesting one. Would like to know for sure though? Cheers.
     
  9. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    5. THE X (iii) LIST comprises
    a) Confirmed prisoners of war,
    b) Personnel officially declared missing,
    c) OR under un-suspended sentence of detention or imprisonment (personnel undergoing
    field punishment remain on unit strength),
    d) Deserters
    Missing personnel will NOT be transferred to X (iii) list until the official notification is received.
    Deserters are NOT struck off unit strength until [notification] is received and personnel are
    declared deserters through Part II Orders. Temporary or acting rank will be retained by, and
    extra-duty pay will continue to be payable to, personnel posted missing or PoW [Prisoner of War].


    TD
     
  10. Eddie Mayell

    Eddie Mayell Member

    The X list info is very interesting/ fascinating! My father was involved in forotious close hand to hand combat, I have evidence from another medical document that says he had been knocked out by a Jap, mostly likely a rifle butt? He was. reported being unconscious for several hours and leaking sebral brain fluid from the ears. The dates of the log against 'x'(iib) is likely to be when this happened, also the dates correspond with events around the 'Admin Box' as he was out in India/Burma. So what I'm suggesting is that he could have been captured for a short period and although he was recorded as emitted to a CCS he could have been medically recorded as'x'(ii) but the addition of (b) could refer to POW as well??!! What do you think?? Does that make sense! There is no other log to suggest he was a POW but to have been knocked out by a Jap and not killed is freaky! As I thought they they took no prisoners? Interesting
     
  11. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Eddie
    Your post 68 requests details for X (iiib), but your post above and his service records only seem to show X (ii) so for extra information that might help:

    4. THE X (ii) LIST comprises all ranks evacuated on medical grounds beyond Regimental First
    Aid Post. Personnel so evacuated cease to be on the effective strength of their units. Temporary
    or acting rank will be relinquished 28 days after being so transferred to X (ii) list. Personnel
    remain in X (ii) list until they are classified as fit for posting when they are transferred to the X (iv)
    list of their corps and marched out to the appropriate training depot, or until discharged by a
    medical unit direct to their original units.


    This woulld tend to fit better the service record. A possible scenario is that he was knocked out and remained as such during the rest of the battle/action, however following this he was found again by his own mates and moved back to a CCS or RAP and beyond. I would guess and suggest that he was never a POW, having said that it would be in your own interest to seek out and read the War Diary for that day or other veterans accounts to understand the whole of the 'battle'/'action'

    TD
     
  12. RosyRedd

    RosyRedd Senior Member

    What TD says is good advice - definitely recommend getting hold of a copy of the war diary if you can.

    The diaries relevant to my research have been very useful and have answered countless questions
     
  13. Eddie Mayell

    Eddie Mayell Member

    Hi Tricky Dicky, yep I get it with the 'X' list the mystery is this (b)? Addition. I'm working on the battle research and this thread is a part of it that too. Hoping someone might throw some more light on the specifics. I'm actually meeting up with a Veteran this Sunday who was in my Dads 2nd Survey Unit. His name is Major Derek Parson of 2nd Survey RA he is 97yrs and still going strong. There aren't many around these days to pick up their accounts. The war diaries are most diffinately on my to do list but I feel I need more facts answered to utilise the time needed and to be sure I'm looking in the right places. This thread was an amazing find but still we have a unanswered question, what is X(iib) we've established (ii) and (iiib) but not what the addition of the (b)?!
    Your theory regarding my Dads senerio is extremely interesting as this is similar to my thoughts and my historian friends. But my Aunty remembers when he came home that he had terrible nightmares and would scream about his mates?! Saying my mates my mates! He told her that he witnessed the Japs beheading is mates? Again no mention of POW FOR SURE, but what hellish scenario could he have been in to have witnessed this? Lots to get through but the X (iib) thing is intriguing.
     
  14. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Eddie

    From another thread on this site and based on NZ 'rules' - X lists (Service Records)

    15. THE X (ii) LIST comprises all ranks evacuated on medical grounds beyond RAP [Regimental Aid Post]. Personnel so evacuated cease to be on the effective strength of their units. Temporary or acting rank will be relinquished 28 days after being so transferred to X (ii) list. Personnel remain in X (ii) list until they are classified as fit for posting by NZ Reception Depot (when they are transferred to the X (iv) list of their corps and marched out to the appropriate training depot), or until discharged by a medical unit direct to their original units. Personnel who, after evacuation beyond RAP are medically graded 1A or lower remain on X (ii) list until they are either (a) placed on NZ Roll, or (b) posted to a Base establishment, or (c) transferred to X (i) list at the Base. Personnel of HQs, or extra-regimental units, may as a matter of convenience be posted direct from NZ Reception Depot and need not be marched through their appropriate training depot. Any extra-duty pay will cease 7 days after transfer to X (ii) list, subject to the proviso that if prior replacement is made ED pay will cease from such prior date.


    As to his nightmares - they could be real as he actually saw him from time to time as he went between conscious and unconscious, or he was told it after the action, or he saw the after effects as he was moved away from the scene - I doubt you will ever know the real answer to that question.

    TD
     
    RosyRedd likes this.
  15. Eddie Mayell

    Eddie Mayell Member

    Great! I'd seen this NZ listings and couldn't believe the British versions should be any different so I think it's is safe to say that that explains it?!
    Regarding the Nightmares the in and out of contiousnesness state is something that was offered as a credible explanation by a historian friend relating to why he was not taken as prisoner or Killed on the spot!? The fighting around that time and my suspicion as to where he might have been, suggests he was wounded and taken for dead. The Japs didn't take prisoners and made sure the dead were dead by bayoneting corpses after the fight. It's possible that the Jap position would have been over run by a Allied counter attack and in the midst of that he was found and rescued?? Your right that I may never fully know the full account but the history and known fighting around those dates and where his unit was posted to suggests I we may not be too far from the truth? Mind blowing stuff. Thanks for all your help, I think we have solved it. Cheers.
     
  16. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    This is a strong statement to make, I am not certain that every Allied soldier who was not killed in a Japanese attack would be bayoneted or beheaded. I would expect during the intensity of any hand to hand action as you believe your relative was a part of, most soldiers would be more inclined to protect themselves first from any potential counterattack. As you mention if that counterattack came quickly enough then injured soldiers would/could have been saved.

    TD
     
  17. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Eddie

    If you type 'Admin Box' into the site search facility then it brings up quite a number of threads regarding the battle, this in turn may turn up veterans direct accounts, books on the subject and also members of this site who are knowledgeable of the subject all of which may help you answer the questions you have

    http://ww2talk.com/index.php?search/747485/&q=admin+box&o=relevance

    TD
     
  18. Eddie Mayell

    Eddie Mayell Member

    Thank you for your support, TD. I'm on a journey of discovery and will take your advice re Admin Box site.
    Regards the above strong statement, I don't think I'm too far wrong, with respect I have my reasons.
     
  19. saintconor

    saintconor Senior Member

    Anyone familiar with the (S) List?
     
  20. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Can you show in what context this arises

    TD
     
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