South African POWs in Italy

Discussion in 'South African' started by Russelle, Jun 6, 2010.

  1. Geotrac

    Geotrac Member

    Hi Steve

    Any chance you could post the pages for "Sa" - I am looking for a Mike Sandys who was my great-uncle and served with the SA Irish. I know he ended up labouring in some mines in Silesia, but I'd love to know his movements before then.

    Regards
    Brad

    Hi Brad, Came across your post by accident while doing my own walk down memory lane! It appears that your great uncle MPJ SANDYS was first a POW in Italy (Camp 52), before ending up at the mines in Silesia (I think this was one of the work camps which fell under StalagVIIIB near Lamsdorf, Poland - I speak under correction though as I only joined yesterday) See attached. I also suggest you check out Lamsdorf: Stalag VIIIB 344 Prisoner of War Camp 1940 - 1945 - Home which is a great "memorial" site about StalagVIIIB and might lead you to more info. Regards, George
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Geotrac

    Geotrac Member

    Hi Daniel, came accross this pic, while doing some of my own research and reading all these posts. Do you know if Allan was related to Edwin Swales in any way and, if so, how were they related? Furthermore, you quote the cemetry as in JHB, while this pic is in DBN? Just something I picked up. Best regards, George

    Hi,

    Thank you so much for your quick response, I greatly appreciate it.

    With regard to Swales. I have found his death record on the cwgc site:

    Name: SWALES, ALLAN COURTNEY
    Initials: A C
    Nationality: South African
    Rank: Corporal
    Regiment/Service: Umvoti Mounted Rifles, S.A. Forces
    Age: 26
    Date of Death: 22/05/1945
    Service No: 5428
    Additional information: Son of Fred C. Swales and Mabel E. Swales, of Durban.
    Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
    Grave/Memorial Reference: Mil. Sec. Grave 336.
    Cemetery: JOHANNESBURG (WEST PARK) CEMETERY

    I'm not sure if that helps?

    Also if you have a moment I would greatly appreciate any information on my other Grandfather. Norman William Muller. He was not a prisoner of war at any stage and I'm not sure what unit he served under but I believe it was based in Cape Town.

    Kind Regards,
    Daniel
     

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  3. swan

    swan Junior Member

    Hello Errol

    If you have your grandfathers service number which you perhaps get from the South African defence force you could apply online to the International Red Cross Committee in Geneva for his records, it does take a while to recieve a reply though, I waited 9 months but it was well worth the wait. I recieved copies of my grandfathers capture cards and a list in which where my grandfather was mentioned on documents from various camps. From this I was able to piece together his movements. Good luck
     
  4. ndlulamithi

    ndlulamithi Junior Member

    Thank you George - that was most helpful!
     
  5. cherylorton

    cherylorton Member

    Hi there.

    If you could help, I would be very grateful. I am going to Perugia in Italy in 4 weeks, with the intention of tracking down information about my father Gerald Allan Vincent, d.o.b. 22nd August 1922, Natal Field Artillery, service no. unknown, captured at Tobruk, interned in Italy somewhere near Perugia.

    I am trying to find out about the camp my father would have been in, and the families around the area that helped the prisoners escape. The details I have are few, but it was a fairly small camp, near Perugia. He used to go to work on a tobacco farm near the camp, owned by an Italian Count.

    He escaped with the help of some of the local folk, around 1942, and returned to South Africa where he rejoined his regiment in Durban and became an interpreter in the p.o.w.camps for Italian prisoners, some of whom became friends, including Gregorio Fiasconaro, later to become leader of the Cape Town Philharmonic Orchestra, and a major figure in the South African opera circles.

    Any assistance would be gratefully received.

    Cheryl Orton
     
  6. cherylorton

    cherylorton Member

    Hello russelle

    Did you by any chance go to school in Durban, South Africa?
    Cheryl
     
  7. cherylorton

    cherylorton Member

    Hello Tarquini.

    Have you seen my posts? I am looking for the pow camp somewhere near Perugia where my father was based. Details as follows:

    Vincent, GA Gnr, s/n 51183, Natal Field Artillery. Captured at Tobruk. I have found only one record, that of Military Hospital H206, Nocera, don't know where that is, but nothing else. I know he escaped from a camp near Perugia some time in 1942 and by various means of hitching and talking people around, he got a flight home and returned to his unit in Durban. Not sure when, but I know he was back by the end of 1943 if not before.

    Many thanks,
    Cheryl
     
  8. iancowan

    iancowan Junior Member

    Hi my Grandfather George Kirkwood McIver was a South African captured in Nth Africa (Trobruk) and was held in an pow camp in Italy and then sent onto a camp in Germany. I would appreciate any help/information anyone can provide in finding out more. Thanks
     
  9. Geotrac

    Geotrac Member

    Hi my Grandfather George Kirkwood McIver was a South African captured in Nth Africa (Trobruk) and was held in an pow camp in Italy and then sent onto a camp in Germany. I would appreciate any help/information anyone can provide in finding out more. Thanks
    Hi Ian, I sent you a PM. Let me know if you received it. Regards, George
     
  10. Geotrac

    Geotrac Member

    Hello Tarquini.

    Have you seen my posts? I am looking for the pow camp somewhere near Perugia where my father was based. Details as follows:

    Vincent, GA Gnr, s/n 51183, Natal Field Artillery. Captured at Tobruk. I have found only one record, that of Military Hospital H206, Nocera, don't know where that is, but nothing else. I know he escaped from a camp near Perugia some time in 1942 and by various means of hitching and talking people around, he got a flight home and returned to his unit in Durban. Not sure when, but I know he was back by the end of 1943 if not before.

    Many thanks,
    Cheryl

    Hi Cheryl,

    Just read your post now. FYI, H206 (Nocera) was a "registered" military hospital, which was located in or near Nocera, which is located in the Province of Salerno, about 20km SE of Naples. I have confirmed that your father was there (at one stage or another!) He could well have been moved from there at a later stage to Perugia? There was a POW camp near Perugia, which is approx. 120km directly north of rome. I hope I have shed a little light! Best regards, George.

    Ref: | Powvets (check it out)
    PS. Have a great trip!:poppy:
    PPS. My grandfather, ML Foxcroft, was also captured at the fall of Tobruk on 21/6/2012, and eventually ended up in Poland. He eventually returned (to Durban as well) in 1945. I just received copies of all his records from the SANDF... kinda cool! Maybe you could do the same?
     

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  11. Geotrac

    Geotrac Member

    Hi Cheryl,

    Here is confirmation of your father being at H206, Nocera (hospital)

    Regards,

    George:)
     

    Attached Files:

  12. cherylorton

    cherylorton Member

    Thanks so much - do you happen to know which Nocera that was, I have found 3 of them, and cannot find any more info on H206 other than the military post centre is 3400. My father was there from Jan 43 to Apr 43. He was also in Caserta in a hospital, in Dec 42. I have also found out that he was in Camp 54, post militare 3330, from May 43, but don't know where it is.

    The picture is starting to come together, and I am really looking forward to the trip now.

    Regards and thanks
    Cheryl
     
  13. cherylorton

    cherylorton Member

    Hi Russell,

    By good fortune I have on file (jpeg) the list of POW's held by the Italians, WO 392, kept at the National Archives, Kew, London.

    Pte. 241358 S.R. Eldridge was held at camp number 66, which is Capua.

    There must be a good chance that this is your father? If you would like the actual jpeg image for his entry, then pm me and we can work out how I can get that to you.

    Cheers.

    Bamboo.
    Hi Russelle

    I have just found out that my uncle, George Jefferies, was also in Camp 66, also captured at Tobruk, was in the SA Infantry, service No. 5537. My brother went to school in Durban and thinks you were at school with him. Now you are in Australia. Small world, hey!
    I have found out my father was in Camp 54, Fara Sabina, near Rome, from May 1943 until they all left in September 1943. He eventually got back to Durban where he rejoined his regiment.
    Regards
    Cheryl
     
  14. Geotrac

    Geotrac Member

    Absolute pleasure! Sorry it wasn't much to go on, but its always interesting nevertheless! I am presuming Nocera was a mere village back then... So "no", not really sure which one it coulda been. I noticed in your reply above, you found out more about Camp 54. There is a great website at Campo PG 54 - Fara Sabina This site is pretty interesting... Enjoy!
     
  15. cherylorton

    cherylorton Member

    Hi Cheryl,

    Just read your post now. FYI, H206 (Nocera) was a "registered" military hospital, which was located in or near Nocera, which is located in the Province of Salerno, about 20km SE of Naples. I have confirmed that your father was there (at one stage or another!) He could well have been moved from there at a later stage to Perugia? There was a POW camp near Perugia, which is approx. 120km directly north of rome. I hope I have shed a little light! Best regards, George.

    Ref: | Powvets (check it out)
    PS. Have a great trip!:poppy:
    PPS. My grandfather, ML Foxcroft, was also captured at the fall of Tobruk on 21/6/2012, and eventually ended up in Poland. He eventually returned (to Durban as well) in 1945. I just received copies of all his records from the SANDF... kinda cool! Maybe you could do the same?
    Hi again. My brother got the records from SANDF and sent them on to me. Combined with the info from Red Cross Geneva, I have managed to fill in so many of the blanks with the exception of the period from capture at Tobruk until December 1942 when my father was admitted to hospital, then moved to the new military hospital that opened in January 1943, He was moved in April to PG54 in Fara Sabina, then in June to PG225 at Marsciano. So think of me today 2 weeks, I will be in Marsciano with one of the members of this site, who lives near there, and who has kindly offered to escort Martin and I to the area, from Perugia near where we are staying. Such amazing people on here, without whose help I would never have got this far, and couldn't have contemplated making this journey.
    Regards
    Cheryl
     
  16. iancowan

    iancowan Junior Member

    Hi George, yes thanks I have replied, any information would be much appreciated. Best regards Ian
     
  17. ivanlotter

    ivanlotter New Member

    Hi George,

    Could you please check if either of my Grandfather's are on the POW lists you posted previously:

    Both in the SAAF during WW2.
    Stanley Ernest BARKER born 24/9/1923 Aircraft Mechanic, nr 207884 stamped on his medals (The Africa Star, The Italy Star, The 1939-1945 Star, but not on his South African Service Medal.
    Isaac Daniel LOTTER born 21/5/1921 Lance Corporal, Aircraft Radio Operator.

    Thank you and regards
    Ivan Lotter
     
  18. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Hello Ivan,

    I've just had a look and can't find either of your grandfathers. Do you know when and where they were taken prisoner?

    Regards,

    Vitellino
     
  19. SAMarine

    SAMarine New Member

    Good evening, all,

    I have been trying to do some research on my grandfather: Nel, Pieter Willem (Nel, P W), service number 115790.

    I have Red Cross messages that he was taken prisoner at Tobruk and was confirmed as a POW at an unnamed Italian POW camp.

    Any help will be greatly appreciated. I am in the United States so my research resources are limited. This site seems to be a God-sent!

    Thanks in advance!

    Pieter
     
  20. DianeE

    DianeE Member

    Hi you can e-mail the SANDF at

    sandfdoc@mweb.co.za

    and ask for a certificate of service for your Grandfather 115790 Nel, Pieter William. There is no charge though you may have to wait a while. This is an example of what you should receive. Once you know his regiment I am sure members will be able to help you further.

    good luck
    Diane‚Äč
     

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