Moving pictures Oosterbeek 18 September. What is trailing the jeep, at the end of the clip?

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by Nijmegen, Jul 14, 2013.

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  1. Nijmegen

    Nijmegen Member

  2. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

  3. Nijmegen

    Nijmegen Member

    It sure looks formidable!

    Thanks!
     
  4. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

  5. Nijmegen

    Nijmegen Member

  6. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Interesting bit of film all the same, thanks for bringing it to our attention. Well, I should say "my attention" as I'm sure the Arnhem guys are well acquainted with it ... :)

    Cheers ...
     
  7. Nijmegen

    Nijmegen Member

  8. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Looks like the spot!

    The one building that stands out as being very similar is Villa Carina (Haar Studio), although it appears much narrower on the video. The shops up from it towards #128 have changed much more over time if not replaced as you seem to be saying ...?
     
  9. Nijmegen

    Nijmegen Member

    Yes!

    [​IMG]
    Albert Hein shop before and after the battle (if you look closely, you can see the the entrance of the shop still standing).
    On the left a German truck is about to turn right, towards Arnhem. On the right, the devastation is clearly visible, in 1945.
     
    canuck likes this.
  10. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Nijmegen,

    I didn't follow through on the link to your greatly improved slow motion clip ... :( But all is revealed as the intersection you show above is clearly visible on the tail end of the video. The cameraman was further up the street than I first thought thus explaining the foreshortening on Villa Carina. They are definitely moving towards Arnhem.

    Really well done!
     
  11. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

  12. airborne medic

    airborne medic Very Senior Member

    From memory the Hartenstein was/is 232 Utrechtseweg, with Meijers and Segers currently at 208 so 128 Utrechtseweg ought to be towards Arnhem......interesting clip presumably taken by a civilian.....
     
  13. Pompey Pal

    Pompey Pal Member

    Firstly, thank you Nijmegen for posting this.
    Secondly, with regards to Lt John Christie, I would suggest that the passenger sitting on the right of the driver, saluting the residents, is Christie. There is a group shot of the officers in Remember Arnhem page 33, and this looks a reasonable likeness. There were only two jeeps towing Polstens which made up the Polsten Platoon in Support Troop and this looks like it fits the bill.
     
  14. Nijmegen

    Nijmegen Member

  15. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    A wonderful montage!

    No idea if that is Christie or not? The detail is just not there for me. Actually I thought he would more likely be riding in a lone jeep. That is the only known photo of Lt. Christie and a group shot of the 1st Airborne Reconnaissance Squadron Support Troop has yet to surface.

    Regards ...
     
  16. Nijmegen

    Nijmegen Member

    :) I would think that he would like to be near "his" Polsten gun.

    Until now, it is guessing. So many untold stories...
     
  17. lancebombardier

    lancebombardier Junior Member

    Wow! What interesting film, I've never seen it before and have checked out all the links and thought about all the comments from everyone. I have a question that hopefully one of the experts can answer; I've read the account on the Recce Polsten guns on Mr Reinders site. however he states via a trooper Watson account that the Polsten guns went no further towards Arnhem than the area of the Hartenstein. So if these pictures are of guns passing Albert Heijn at 128 Utrechtseweg on 18th September then someone is wrong? Is it the film caption or the Polsten/Reinders web site?
     
  18. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    lancebombardier,

    If the September 18th date is correct I suspect what you are seeing in the video is a reconnaissance patrol. Unfortunately the Support Troop diary is not available on the Pegasus Archives but they are noted in the HQ one where mention is made of an early morning recce. I can't get the Coordinate Translator to work on the numbers provided.

    The shadows cast may give an indication of the time of day. They are travelling towards the east. The cameraman is facing west on the north side of the street. Shot sometime in the morning ...?

    Perhaps someone with Remember Arnhem by John Fairley could do a look up.

    Regards ...
     
  19. Nijmegen

    Nijmegen Member

    0700 - Main road reached at point 656780. [1] Order of march "D" Troop followed by Tac HQ, "A" and Support Troop. No opposition encountered.

    0800 - "D" Troop comes under fire from M.G.s and small arms 708782. [2] Dismounted action carried out by both "A" and "D" Troops in north of road.

    1000 - Civilian reports state that enemy patrols to our north are working around to cut our rear at 702784. [3] Enemy located by "A" Troop.

    1015 - Lieut-QM. Collier reports to Divisional HQ and is informed that all HQ.s are moving forward.

    1130 - Capt. Allsop withdraws Tac HQ and Support Troop to 688784. [4] Local protection put out.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    According to a friend who is an expert on the Recce Regt at Arnhem, and who appears to know quite a bit about this particular piece of film footage, the film maker commented that not long after taking this film they all came hurtling back after running into opposition at Mariendaal.

    Apparently there was a further attempt to break through later in the day on which occasion they got no further than Weverstraat. Coincidentally where this film was shot.

    John
     

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