Moving pictures Oosterbeek 18 September. What is trailing the jeep, at the end of the clip?

A new clip. 18 20 September, in the afternoon, Germans at the junction Utrechtseweg-Weverstraat, looking in the direction of Hartenstein.

http://lostatnijmegen.pre-jump.nl/18-september-oosterbeek

 

Nijmegen,

I was wondering what else you had up your sleeve ...

That fits in almost perfectly with the time-line and John's comment above. The corner shown has changed considerably since then. An edge of a doorway or window can seen briefly so perhaps it was shot from the older home still there today?

Regards ...

 

Jack Watson and Bill Bateman were both Posten Crew, when Lt Christie was killed.

Lawrence

 

That is where the family lived, yes!

In the beginning of the last clip, you can see a steering wheel. From an allied jeep, is it not?

 

Lawrence

There is no question that Watson was a member of the Polsten crew. What is confusing is that his account on Philip Reinder's site makes no mention of an abortive attempt to drive into Arnhem on the morning of the 18th (or again later that day).
Instead he says that they covered C Troop at the ambush site. According to Fairley's book (Page 69) C Troop had been allocated the task of holding the DZ, following Hick's instruction that the South Staffords were to proceed directly to Arnhem, and the recovery of the bodies from the ambush site was a secondary task allocated to them. According to Fairley that instruction was given at 0945 by which time the other party was already past Oosterbeek and engaged in fighting around Mariendaal.
Could it be that the two Polstens were split. One remaining with C Troop on the Landing Zone while the other went with the remainder into Arnhem. If this is the case then the jeep in the film will not be that driven by Watson.

John

 

Lawrence,

I've read Bill Bateman's account of Lt. Christie's death and how it affected him deeply for the rest of his life.

Nijmegen,

If that's an allied jeep what's it doing there at that time with Germans milling about? It looks like the film was shot from the first floor window next to the entrance which overlooks the parking area and curving iron fence. I get the impression he was trying to be as stealthy as possible and not attract attention?

I'm not very good with German tracked vehicles, but I'm sure someone will have an idea of what is shown there.

Regards ...

 

Very interesting clip, i thought the German vehicle may have been a flak wagon? Also none of the Germans appear armed. or really concerned, are those civilians walking in the background? Is it possible the jeeps either been knocked out or being used by the Germans at the roads edge?

 

It looks like a Flak panzer to me as well. 37 mm on a Pz III or IV chassis? Could this have been the infamous "tank" that 3 Para Bn met on the evening of the 17th? Later seen in photos on the Dreijensweg?

The big question must be - what else has Nijmegen got up his sleeve?

Thanks for posting these,

Tom

 

I think so too!!
Two Flakpanzer IV with 3.7cm Flak 43 gun, on Dreijenseweg, driving towards Oosterbeek.

Nice reactions on the forum, so my pleasure!

 

Yes, thats the vehicle and your probably right Tom, that this was the 'tank' Interesting to trace its route from there to where it ended up. Still suprised at how the Germans are reacting, certainly they do not appear threatened or concerned?

However an excellent clip, and certainly interestng about the Flak Wagon!

 

Looking at the picture with the two Flakpanzer, I now think that there were at least three Flakpanzer in the area. On the Internet there are reports that both 9 and 10 SS Panzer received 8 Flakpanzer, early September.

Formidable weapons, I think.

 

Does it look like the crew of the vehicle in front looking down the main road towards where the British would be coming from?

I note that in Kershaw's "It Never Snows in September" he has 9th SS only having four 20mm Flak.

Regards

Tom

 

If not knocked out it's probably a captured jeep like you say ...? What's odd is that it should be parked immediately in front of the photographer's home.

The camera person has a pretty steady hand if all these little clips were shot in hand held mode rather than from a tripod. The operator no doubt has some past experience with using movie cameras.

I notice too that in the before and after comparison photo of the corner in post #9 the pic on the left appears to have been taken from the same house. Possibly a still from yet another clip taken by our Oosterbeek cameraman ...

Regards ...

 

I have eliminated identical frames in the original footage, added more contrast and then stabilized the clip. By doing so, movement in the clip is steady, more natural. It should be done with all WWII footage, I think. A comparison can be seen on my website http://lostatnijmegen.pre-jump.nl/18-september-oosterbeek.

Yes! Very observant!

 

Just noticed this thread.

The gun being towed reminded me of the Oerlikon that I briefly manned on my trip out to North Africa in April 1943.

Ron

 

There are some photographs of the Squadron in After the Battle:Then and Now p301-305. The supporting narrative records that the 2 jeeps of C Troop were supplemented by 2 from HQ Troop. Karel records that the support troop moved towards Oosterbeek, which follows the Fairley line.
I've no reason to doubt Watson if he says that he went no further than the Hartenstein, but clearly one of the Polstens did.
It may have been that the jeeps were all kept some distance apart, as was the case with the Bucknall ambush, but if the two support jeeps were bringing up the rear, the gap is clearly to large. So, do we have an alternative explanation why he stopped at the Hartenstein?
Page 76 of Fairley includes a reference to Quartermaster Collier forming an HQ Base and ammunition dump near the Hartenstein. I can't believe some men would not have stayed with that to provide local protection and it would seem to be a situation better suited to the use of the Polsten than trailing it forward behind the first gun on the recce towards Arnhem.
So they both advanced to Oosterbeek, but there they split, for a period. On one of the later days, Fairley records they are moved from the HQ Base position in support of the troops fighting at Dennenkamp.

 

I might also add that the 4 jeeps that formed C (+HQ) Troop on the 18th get very badly shot up in the later skirmishes on Amsterdamweg. The fighting is graphically described by Fairley, only 7 men made it back to the Divisional position. At no time in any of the related narrative is any mention made of a Polsten, or of saving it and getting it back to the HQ base
Their is a small snippet of video on the 18th showing the 4 vehicles at Wolfheze, but it is not conclusive enough to say they definitely did not have a Polsten with them, although if they had, one might have expected the cameraman to record it.

 

I agree it is not conclusive, but is his actions as much as anything that persuade me. Whilst the men at the back offer a cheery wave and a tug at the forelock, the man I believe might be Christie, offers up a very smart salute.

 

Probably is the crew, with support or the men who have capured the Jeep, that is in the shot. Certainly they do not expect the British to be anywhere else but up the road towards the Hartenstein, and they are close enough to crew the vehicles

Thats if its the only Flak wagon there ? Could be a couple, seeing the amount of Germans at the roadside.

 

I'm a little reluctant to post this because it's so obvious, but here's a present day Google pic of the house in question. My best guess is the film was taken from the centre pane of the first floor window. Notice how even today there's a parking spot immediately in front.

Pompey Pal, I noticed the Para in the passenger seat of the first jeep offered up a royal salute of sorts to the waving civilians ...

Some great comments here that have helped me understand the situation with the Support Troop a little better.

Regards ...