Dickinson's Real Deals

I would normally have posted this item on a thread entitled Dickinson's Real Deal but, for whatever reason, the Forum won't or can't let me access it so I'm posting here instead.

This afternoon I watched DRD as usual and up popped this item in which a young lady was selling her Great Uncle Harold's medals who had served in two wars. Her father had been left them when her great uncle died and now that he had passed away, in her words, "she had no further use for them"

One of the resident dealers eventually bought them for £230.

The set consisted of 2 Great War medals and at least 5 WW2 including one for gallantry, The young lady had brought along a letter that explained how the recipient had to go to the Palace to receive the award, she also revealed that her Great Uncle was in the Navy and held the rank of Quartermaster.

Have a look at the set and perhaps you can identify the medal for valour.

Ron




I have seen that show a couple of times, I suppose that the dealer involved is taking a punt, but when you start talking gallantry (as opposed to a birthday honour for the same medal), the price goes up dramatically. The sort of people that would sell to a dealer in this fashion are in all honesty just after a quike buck.


They will not got a true & reflected market value dealing in this way. A group like that would see a far better return going to a specialist auction house. The seller got her 15 minutes of fame, but at what cost? "you can't put brains on statues".

Just so we know what we are talking about, the group consists of the following:
British Empire Medal - Gallantry (civil division)
1914-18 War medal
1914-18 Mercantile Marine Medal
1939-45 Star
Africa Star
Atlantic star
1939-45 War medal

The seller got her facts wrong, her great uncle was Merchant Navy in WW1 & the same in WW2. By virture of the fact the BEM has a civil ribbon as opposed to the military division ribbon bears this out.

The group could have been worth probably double + (for gallantry) what she got for it & thats why in this information Savvy age, she should have taken it to a specialist.

To have the story fleshed out puts an increment on the group. He may well have got his award for a notable action or sinking, ect.

By comparison, here is an identical group that was sold not long ago, but the BEM was not for Gallantry but for service. even taking commission into account, the price is still higher than what this seller received from 1 of Dickensons mates.

Dix Noonan Webb: Medals: Auction Archive: Search Catalogue Archive: Lot 766, 5 Jul 11

Regards

Simon

 

By now you should all know of my love/hate relationship with the Dickinson program but I tape the series and occasionally watch it live.

Yesterday's program made me sit up because there was this bloke flogging his collection of cap badges, buckles, badges and even medal ribbon bars.

What made me look twice was the 4th QOH cap badge included in his collection, see if you can spot it.

He eventually took the collection to auction where it raised about £230 after auction fees.

Ron

 

Was anyone else watching this program today ?

Up popped this very smart veteran called Roy, who was flogging his partner's grandfather's WW1 medals.

The short story is that he got a generous £80 for a set of two "basics", more than the £60 valuation because the dealer was impressed by him.

When the dealer quizzed him he proudly said " I am 86 and a half" and went on to say he was aged 19 when he was called up.
He explained his medals to the dealer and mentioned his France & Germany Star.

Would someone care to do the maths and tell me what year he was called up ?

NOT because I doubt his service for one moment ( he came across as completely genuine ) but I think Arnhem was mentioned and I am a tad puzzled at the dates.

Ron



.

 

the date of the programme, as stated at the end, was 2012, if that is any help.

 

Richsrd

Thanks for that.......didn't see the end of the program.

So....hHe is now at least 87 and a half, so that needs to be added to the equation

Ron

 

None of them on DRD have a Scooby Doo about medals (with perhaps one infrequent exception, more later) and perpetrate this 'they're only the ordinary/'General Service' medals everyone got' and dismissing them put of hand without even alluding to the research that can be done with named medals. "Flog It" is just as bad.

The infrequent exception on Dickinson is the fellow who was very keen to buy a NW Europe Military Medal group (I think to the Lincolns?) from the recipient's son. In the stage aside he says "I like medals, I like these... I'm going to buy these at a fair price and perhaps keep them from myself". Opening bid? £250. This was unsurprisingly turned down - eventually they sold for £950. A fraction of the true market value. "Cheap as chips" indeed. And on the day, that was, in the words of the creosoted one "the real deal" - for the dealer.

 

Yes but what do you do if there are no family members left? It seems that museums don't necessarily want them or won't guarantee to display them. In the end it is the stories behind them that is important...we all die so a medal doesn't really tell the story.I personally wouldn't part with them if I had them...my brother got them. The set also includes an interesting one my grandmother earned as a nurse in Cameroon in WW1 in a star shape I think.

 

I'm not criticising people for selling medals - there are many reasons (remember the story in the press late last year about a Rhine Crossing MM to a Sapper who sold it to feed his family in the late 40s, but his grandson bought it back for the great-grandaughter?) and it is pointless to get sanctimonious over those who do. Both my partner's grandfathers were decorated in WW1 - a 1914 DCM and a 1918 MM. The latter has vanished, although we suspect where it went and it may have been sold, we don't know. A reunite would be splendid, as we have the DCM.

I used to buy 'cheap' medals - like WW1 Victory Medals - for their stories when I had ready access to research material pre-internet. And had dealers laugh at me for buying them. Who's laughing now?

But we have the same dilemma. We have grandfather's medals, but the successor regiment are unlikely to want them. I went to their museum and medal room - and groups to Lt Generals with decorations and orders were in drawers (which you could see) as there were so many generated by the regiment. It would therefore seem not much point to donate them as they will be forgotten.. So... partner's brother doesn't want them; his children and grandchildren have no interest in them. So where do they ultimately go?

Zahonado - that is a very interesting tale; the medal will be a 1914-15 Star. To a nurse, for Africa? A good tale in that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1914%E2%80%9315_Star

 

Staffsyeoman, yes she had an interesting life , said to be the first white woman seen in Cameroon before the war. She never said a word, but my father did a bit of investigation and discovered an account by another nurse in the same hospital( this is held at the Liddle collection at Leeds University.) She met my grandfather who was a senior engineer working on wireless cables up the west African coast. There are several photos of local scenes, but one where a group of completely naked guys were playing a serious game of cricket...the umpire was wearing a white coat! I have to say I have been so busy with 1944, I haven't looked at much else!

 

The tv antique shows normaly get me blood boiling , i recall about 4 years ago the Antiques Road show had a bloke turn with his ancestors medals , name of Fletcher , was Wellingtons engineer officer in the Pennisular ,responsible for all the major seiges awnserd only to Wellington ,mentioned in most books in detail ,killed in 1814 ,medals included a Pennisular Gold cross and Spanish decorations , comment was oh very intresting good its still with you value £10,000, yer right missing a few digets somewhere?
And does any one recall the Dambusters DFM a few years ago ? Same programe and a very cxxxxed expert with his own auction house, lot included medals , log book signed by Gibson , DFM was for the Dams raid , grandson brought it in ,comment was well lovely item and you cant of course sell it lovely its still with you to pass on . And what fo you know turns up in his auction estimate 50k + which it sailed past and he gets 17% commission ! That was another year i told the BEEB to stuff the liscence fee

 

its a terrible thing and says a lot about todays anything for 15minutes of fame society . its not just medals, you see all sorts of stuff sometimes left to them by their parents , but they are prepared to sell it for 30 quid so they can get on telly and get the spacehoppers autograph .

 

Cash in the attic is the one lets sell grandads medals faimly heirlooms ,so we can have a day out at Alton Towers ,trip to KFC and look mum we on the telly

 

I stick to Bargain Hunt!
No grabbing relatives,just people trying to do the impossible(buy retail,sell at auction)
Tim Wannacott ,camp as Christmas!
And i stream it ,so its on at breakfast time for me (7.15)
Gives me my little UK fix before starting the day

 

Watching the program this afternoon.

Chap brought along a collection of memorabila that belonged to his late RAF father.

The short story is that he settled for £50 but it was his reason for selling that made me inwardly moan.

"They were in a drawer, not being used "

Say no more !

Ron

 

Ron

I'd give my right arm to have my fathers medals. Haven't a clue what happened to them.

Lesley

 

Today, as Ron notes:

1939-45 Star, France and Germany Star, War Medal.
Two Flight Engineer half wings as worn on battledress.
A mess dress Flight Engineer half wing.
Two RAF buttons (no-one looked to see if one might have been a concealed escape compass)
A couple of sweethearts, including one of those clear plastic engraved ones
An aircrew whistle
A signalling mirror.

..at least

The dealer, a notorious tightwad, puts fifty quid on the table. Enter the creosoted one - who I am hoping will inject reason - who informs the seller that their "independent valuers" have valued them at "forty to sixty quid" and tells him, amidst his usual ghastly pantomime of throwing up salutes whenever militaria appears, to take the money. Which he does. (The dealer moved them on for £75)

Leaving aside the moral aspects, the 'valuers' should be taken out and hit about the head with a railway sleeper until they see reason. They clearly do not know their jobs - given that one wing could reach what was offered for the whole.

 

I'm with you there Lesley, never seen or know where my granddad'a are either.

 

Hi Ron,

I know what you mean. Obviously we all have an avid interest in WW2 and hopefully understand what you gents and ladies went through back then. I can never really see why people sell their relatives medals for a few quid, if they are in a drawer and your not interested, then leave them there until someone in the family is.

I met the wife of a RSM who won a gallantry medal in Burma, she is very concerned that when she is no longer with us the medal will be sold straight away by her family. I suggested that she bypass the generation below and invest in her grandchildren now by telling them the story of their grandfather and his war effort.

Best wishes

Steve

 

Intrestingly i saw a copy of the rules for anyone taking part on Bargin Hunt and it forbids buying items of a military nature.