24th Lancers - "C" Squadron

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by Ramiles, Mar 13, 2018.

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  1. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    "C" Squadron of the 24th Lancers

    Nb: There is also a link to some information on "B" Squadron here: 24th Lancers - "B" Squadron

    Thanks to Steve (SDP), to the best of my current knowledge, "C" squadron of the 24th Lancers had the following people in the tank commander roles around D-Day...

    C_Squadron.JPG

    "C" Squadron - 24th Lancers - H.Q. Troop ( 3 Sherman 75mm, 1 Sherman 17-pdr )

    Major J. Noel Cowley (WIA 10d6m1944): 24th Lancers - Roll of Honour

    Captain Robert Dalrymple Arbuthnot (KIA 30d6m1944)

    Captain John Cox

    Corporal Mills: Perhaps? L/Sgt A.F.C.Mills: 24th Lancers Regimental Nominal Roll and Postings August 1944

    And with A/SQMS Law, J.: 24th Lancers Regimental Nominal Roll and Postings August 1944

    1st Troop - 3 Sherman 75mm

    Lt.A.C.Hawkins (WIA in Normandy): A/Capt.A.C.Hawkins: 24th Lancers Regimental Nominal Roll and Postings August 1944

    Sgt. Ben Symes: W/Sgt B.W.A.Symes: 24th Lancers Regimental Nominal Roll and Postings August 1944

    Cpl. Corbett: Perhaps W/Cpl T. Corbett: 24th Lancers Regimental Nominal Roll and Postings August 1944

    2nd Troop - 3 Sherman 75mm

    Lt.Clive Dixon : (WIA 11d6m1944)

    W/Sgt. Clifford Warrington (KIA 27d8m1944): 24th Lancers Regimental Nominal Roll and Postings August 1944

    Cpl.Wilcox (Awarded Military medal - p219 NHL): As A/Sgt W.Wilcox: 24th Lancers Regimental Nominal Roll and Postings August 1944

    3rd Troop - 3 Sherman 75mm

    Lt.B.A.Jewell: 24th Lancers Regimental Nominal Roll and Postings August 1944

    Sgt. "Spud" Taylor : (WIA in Normandy in early June 1944)

    Cpl.Stan Cooper : 24th Lancers Regimental Nominal Roll and Postings August 1944

    4th Troop - 3 Sherman 75mm

    Lt.David G.D.Gray (WIA 10d6m1944)

    Sgt.G.R. ("Ginger") Beer: W/Sgt G.R.Beer: 24th Lancers Regimental Nominal Roll and Postings August 1944

    Cpl.L.V.Darby: Perhaps W/Cpl L.V.Darby: 24th Lancers Regimental Nominal Roll and Postings August 1944

    5th (Firefly) Troop - 3 Sherman 17-pdr

    Lt. Bertram Henry Garai (WIA 9d6m1944) : 24th Lancers - Roll of Honour

    Sgt. Eric Hanson (WIA in Normandy in early June 1944?) - "Sgt.Hanson (Pindorfields, Yorks, with a compound fracture from hip to ankle)" : Ref: 24th Lancers Newsletter: 'Lancer Life'.

    Cpl. (A/Sgt) S.E.Barnaby: 24th Lancers Regimental Nominal Roll and Postings August 1944

    Over the last few years, I've also been trying to work out also who was initially in each of these crews, as well as when various tanks were knocked out, and where replacements were necessary, who replaced who in which roles etc.

    It has also been possible to see over time quite a few pictures that relate specifically to "C" squadron of the 24th L. Though there was not ever, to the best of my knowledge, actually a picture taken of the whole of "C" squadron of the 24th L.

    There's still a very great deal that I don't yet understand about how "C" squadron of the 24th Lancers changed over time, but it's always possible that more info. might, one day, come up ;-)

    With the call signs of the 24th Lancers "C" Squadron tanks being:

    "C" Squadron - 24th Lancers - H.Q. Troop ( 3 Sherman 75mm, 1 Sherman 17-pdr )

    (This is me guessing ;-) - I'm not sure at. the mo. how the fighting HQ troop in a squadron call sign designated its tanks...

    Charlie Able (or Charlie - HQ - Able) - Perhaps? : Major J. Noel Cowley

    Charlie Baker : Captain Robert Dalrymple Arbuthnot

    Charlie Charlie : Captain John Cox

    Charlie Dog (Presumably perhaps the Firefly tank in "C" Sqd's fighting HQ Troop : Cpl.l Mills

    1st Troop - 3 Sherman 75mm


    Charlie - One - Able : Lt. A.C.Hawkins (This tank may have been knocked out nr.Fontenay : Ref. 24th Lancers - "C" Squadron and may have been replaced)

    With - Charlie - One - Able "II" : Possible replacement or repair.

    Charlie - One - Baker "I" : T/C Sgt. Ben Symes, Wireless: Cpl Lambourne, Driver: Williams, Gunner : Beddow (Note. my gd. described this tank lost to a mine: How granddad lost a bottle of whiskey (and a Sherman tank) in Normandy )

    Charlie - One - Baker "II" : Same crew as Charlie - One - Baker "II" - my gd. reported his going to get this tank here: An unexpected visit to Monty's HQ )

    Charlie - One - Charlie : Cpl. Corbett - (This tank may have been knocked out nr.Fontenay - Ref. 24th Lancers - "C" Squadron and may have been replaced)

    With - Charlie - One - Charlie "II" : Possible replacement or repair.

    2nd Troop - 3 Sherman 75mm


    Charlie - Two - Able "I" : Lt.Clive Dixon (Lt. Dixon was wounded and his tank I think knocked out)

    Charlie - Two - Able "II" : (Tank commander to be confirmed - this tank replaced that lost when Lt.Clive Dixon was wounded)

    Charlie - Two - Baker : Sgt.Warrington - Nb. this tank broke down nr. Southampton and therefore missed the initial Normandy landings with the rest of the 24th L and was either repaired or replaced, not quite sure at the mo. ;-)

    Charlie - Two - Charlie : Cpl.Wilcox (Later troop sergeant of 2nd Troop)

    3rd Troop - 3 Sherman 75mm

    Charlie - Three - Able : Lt.B.A.Jewell

    Charlie - Three - Baker "I" : Sgt. "Spud" Taylor : (Sgt. Taylor was wounded. This tank was knocked out and presumably replaced) ; Ref. Rescuing a C squadron 24th Lancers tank in no-man’s-land Normandy June 1944

    Charlie - Three - Baker "II" : (Tank commander to be confirmed - this tank I assume replaced that lost when Sgt. Taylor was wounded in the first few weeks in Normandy).

    Charlie - Three - Charlie : T/C: Cooper, Driver - Haskins, Gunner - E.C. "Busty" Simpson.

    4th Troop - 3 Sherman 75mm

    Charlie - Four - Able : Lt.David G.D.Gray

    Charlie - Four - Baker : Sgt.G.R. ("Ginger") Beer

    Charlie - Four - Charlie : Cpl. (A/Sgt) S.E.Barnaby:

    5th Troop - 3 x Sherman 17-pdr ("C" Squadron's Firefly Troop)

    Charlie - Five - Able "I" : Lt.Bertram Henry Garai: (Lt. Garai was wounded. This tank, I think, was knocked out nr. Point 103 / St.Pierre on 9d6m1944y and presumably replaced). Driver KIA and the rest of the crew (2 persons) wounded ref. p122 NHL.

    Charlie - Five - Able "II" : Tank Commander (To be confirmed - this tank presumably replaced that lost when Lt.Garai was wounded)

    Charlie - Five - Baker "I" : Sgt. Eric Hanson (Sgt.Hanson was wounded in the leg and I presume currently his tank was knocked out and replaced)

    Charlie - Five - Baker "II" : Tank Commander (To be confirmed - this tank I presume replaced that which may have been lost when Sgt. Eric Hanson was wounded)

    Charlie - Five - Charlie : Cpl. S.E.Barnaby
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
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  2. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Some WW2talk links that relate to "C" squadron of the 24th Lancers... (to add in edit etc)

    24th Lancers - Roll of Honour

    24th Lancers Regimental Nominal Roll and Postings August 1944

    24th Lancers Newsletter: 'Lancer Life'.

    A bit of detective work...was this a 24th Lancer's "American"1943 Xmas?

    18th May 1944 - Assault party moved to camp C13 Hursley

    Rescuing a C squadron 24th Lancers tank in no-man’s-land Normandy June 1944

    Tank losses of the 24th Lancers in Normandy – June and July 1944

    An unexpected visit to Monty's HQ

    Re. Trooper James Adamson: 24th Lancers
    & : 24th Lancers - Roll of Honour

    Re. Major Robert Arbuthnot : 24th Lancers - Roll of Honour

    Re. Trooper Ronald C.H. Baxter: 24th Lancers - Roll of Honour

    Re. Trooper Len Beddow: 24th Lancers - Roll of Honour

    & : Photos of old army comrades for Len Beddow

    Re.. Trooper Cyril Brindley: My Grandfather in 'C' Squadron 24th Lancers 1944

    Re. Lt. Bertram H. Garai (wounded 9d6m1944 in Normandy) : 24th Lancers - Roll of Honour

    Re. Trooper Stan Haygarth : Subject of the book "A Daleman's War"

    Re. Trooper Eric R. Newnham : 24th Lancers - Roll of Honour

    Re. Trooper John Drayson Simmons : 24th Lancers - Roll of Honour

    Re. Trooper Thomas Turner: 24th Lancers - Roll of Honour

    Notes...

    1. Sgt. Clifford V. "Aggie" Warrington's tank broke down (p63 NHL) at the docks in Southampton so was not with "C" squadron of the 24th L during the initial Normandy Landings.

    2. Lt.Bertram Garai made an audio recording with the IWM. The audio is not currently available online but there are a number of paragraphs in the object description that cover the contents:
    Garai, Bertram Henry (Oral history) | Imperial War Museums
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
  3. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Some "C" Squadron 24th lancer events:

    December 1940 Cannock and Colton. The squadron leader of "C" squadron 24th Lancers was Major E.R. (Ted) Pettit.

    March 1941. Boroughbridge
    June 1941. Keldy Castle: Keldy Castle
    August 1941. Whitby

    January 1942: Major Pettit leaves to beome "Second in Command, The Lothian and Border Horse, 36th Yeomanry Regiment, United Kingdom" ref. : Pettit, Edward Ronald - TracesOfWar.com
    And the command of "C" squadron 24th Lancers falls to Major R.P.Scott (of the Queen's Bays).

    April 1942. Mayfield
    May 1942. Crowborough

    15d6m1942 (date of death) - Sgt Ernest Carter

    August 1942. Rottingdean and Upper Beeding
    August 1942. 'Canada Farm' near Elvedon
    September 1942. Chippenham Park near Newmarket
    October 1942 - Lt. Crane, Jack Hemery - of "C" Squadron 24th L - KIA 24/10/1942 - Attached with 5 R.T.R. - El.Alamein: Casualty

    June 1943. Bridlington

    August 1943 - Major Noel Cowley takes over command of "C" squadron from Major Dick Scott.

    Xmas - December 1943? : A bit of detective work...was this a 24th Lancer's "American"1943 Xmas?

    February 1944. Chippenham Park
    April 1944. Milford on Sea
    May 1944. Hursley Park near Southampton : 18th May 1944 - Assault party moved to camp C13 Hursley
    June 1944. Southampton

    Normandy -

    Events around Brazenville: Bazenville, Normandy (B2)

    Events around Point 103: The Battles for Point 103 and St. Pierre (8th– 18th June 1944)

    KIA 8d6m1944y - Trooper Mant, William (Bill) Charles Henry - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2628064/MANT, WILLIAM CHARLES HENRY

    KIA 8d6m1944y - Trooper Wager, Arthur Charles Manfred - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2628694/WAGER, ARTHUR CHARLES MANFRED

    KIA - 9or10d6m1944y - Brindley, Cyril Arthur - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2218525/BRINDLEY, CYRIL ARTHUR

    KIA 10d6m1944y - Trooper Attwood, Leonard George - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2626948/ATTWOOD, LEONARD GEORGE

    KIA - 10d6m1944y - Compton, Henry Patrick - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2218590/COMPTON, HENRY PATRICK

    KIA - 10d6m1944y - Newnham, Eric R - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2219014/NEWNHAM, ERIC ROY

    10d6m1944y - Saturday - "C" Squadron leader Major J. Noel Cowley wounded (hit by a small piece of shrapnel in the temple p143 NHL) during a German counter-attack on St.Pierre.
    Captain Bill Luddington (previously the 2nd in Command of A squadron of the 24th Lancers) - takes over as "C" Squadron leader - with temporary rank of Major.

    11d6m1944y - Sunday - Lt.Clive Dixon - 2nd Troop - WIA 11d6m1944 - (Ref. p171 NHL) - leaving a requirement for a replacement in Dixon's role as the leader of the 2nd Troop.

    16d6m1944y - Events around Cristot

    17d6m1944y - Ref. on p99 of "C" squadron 24th L loosing two Sherman tanks on route to relieve "B" squadron of the 24th L at Bois Londe.

    25d6m1944y - 1d7m1944y - Events around Tessel - Fontenay-Le-Pesnel - Rauray

    24th Lancers - Tessel Wood (c25th June 1944)

    Around 26d6m1944y - after the wounding of B squadron's Roy Bennett (WIA - 25d6m1944y) and the death of Ian Kerr (KIA - 26d6m1944y) - "C" Squadron's Captain Robert Arbuthnot was transferred to lead "B" squadron of the 24th L. Major Robert Arbuthnot was subsequently KIA whilst leading "B" squadron on 30d6m1944y.

    Defence of Rauray by the 24th Lancers, Tyneside Scottish et alia

    24th Lancers, M4 vs Panthers. Rauray 1/7/44

    Died (of wounds) in UK - 1d7m1944y Trooper Constable, Arthur Robert : There's a ref. here in the 4th Lancer Life: 24th Lancers Newsletter: 'Lancer Life'.
    - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2407036/CONSTABLE, ARTHUR ROBERT

    KIA 1d7m1944y - TrooperTurner, Thomas Stanley - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2628675/TURNER, THOMAS STANLEY

    KIA 1d7m1944y - Trooper West, Reginald Frank - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2628737/WEST, REGINALD FRANK

    "C" Squadron 24th L is reported to have lost two Shermans and "B" Squadron 24th L one Sherman on this day.

    Subsequent events in July 1944 - 24th Lancers in July 1944

    Some 24th L "C" Squadron related events post the disbandment of the 24th L

    KIA 2d8m1944 - Trooper Little, Arthur William Athelstan - http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2045417/LITTLE, ARTHUR WILLIAM ATHELSTAN

    KIA 4d8m1944 - Lieutenant Colonel (Who, as Major, led "C" squadron 24th L - Dec 1940-Jan 1942) Edward Ronald Pettit : Casualty

    KIA 14d8m1944 - Trooper Ronald C.H.Baxter (with SRY)

    KIA 14d8m1944 - Trooper Frederick W.J.Eley (with SRY)

    KIA 16d8m1944 - Trooper henry Kenworthy (with 3 R.T.R)

    KIA 27d8m1944 - Sgt. Clifford V.Warrington (with 4/7 R.D.G.)

    KIA 10d9m1944 - Cpl. Cyril E. Burnet (with SRY)

    KIA 10d9m1944 - Trooper Donald Barrett (with Popki's Private Army - burried Phaleron, Greece)

    KIA 19d11m1944 - Trooper Joseph M.Whitehead (with 4/7 R.D.G.)

    (Nb - more to add in edit etc)

    Notes...


    1. Following the transfer of Robert Arbuthnot from "C" squadron to "B" the replacement for Robert Arbuthnot in "C" was perhaps Acting Captain Hawkins. Whilst the prior role of Acting Captain Hawkins - i.e. leading the first troop of "C" was taken by a replacement - i.e. perhaps 2nd Lt.Cameron.

    (Further editing in progress ;-)
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
  4. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    The Flames of War site: Hobby
    ...has an image to show which tank markings the 8th Armoured Brigade used in Normandy:

    8th_Armoured_TAC.JPG

    With "C" squadron of the 24th Lancers using a Yellow Circle on their tanks. The IWM has a number of pictures of 24th Lancer tanks i.e. (to add in edit) generally noting date and general location, from which sometimes even if the tank markings are not evident or clear, some clues as to which squadron they might have been in might be given i.e. from where in the war diary the squadron was operating on which particular date.

    It may be possible too perhaps that some of the tanks lacked markings as they were replacements to the regiment and had yet to be marked up?

    https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205204595
    Currently gives: "Sorry, this page is unavailable while we are working to update our website."

    However the same 24th Lancer picture is also here as part of this page: Tactics And The Cost Of Victory In Normandy

    24th Lancer image search: 24th Lancers - Google Search
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
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  5. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Some discussion re. this film: Nr. Bayeux or Tilly Sur Seulles - could anyone help further identify where these Sherman tanks are?

    Identifying that the Shermans were perhaps probably 4/7th RDG as well as one of the locations on which the film of them was shot on 13th June 1944 on google maps.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  6. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    I was just picking some "C" squadron 24th L info out of here:

    "This was the moment of truth alright, if the sealing had gone they’d quickly fill with water, if there was a hole between ship and shore water would go in through the top where the tank commander was perched. So all crews were aboard except the tank commanders and we were clustered around the ramp watching Eric Hanson (i.e. Eric Hanson's tank) drop in, when he leveled he had a foot to spare and there was one big scamper back to our tanks. We were nose to tail going off and were very happy to get moving again. We quickly dropped off the exhaust chute in the field already designated, blew off the gun covers with the small explosive fixed around it, these were electrically exploded by the driver. As I said we were reserve regiment so we weren’t pushed in yet. We hadn’t seen any enemy so we knew there wasn’t any panic about so pulling into a hedge I told the crew to get out and feel if French soil was different to English. I had a bottle of Whiskey and a glass and had just poured a good stiff one when from not far away a Spandau opened up, you never saw such a rush to get back inside no I didn’t spill the whiskey, I drank it.
    Before moving away I did manage to go to the big gun site, it didn’t seem as if it had been fired. The underground offices were well worth a visit
    ."

    "We then moved slowly inland. We were given a few places to check, a very big electrical station, there didn’t seem to be anybody about. There was some sniping from the odd German left behind but not much."

    "Nobody seemed to be doing any bashing on. Whoever was in the village knocked out one of our tanks on my left and then we came up against some sort of obstacle, might have been a tank ditch or railway line about 200 yards from the village and that distance was covered by orchards. On my tank I had kept the 0.5 machinegun mounted on top of the turret, these guns were a nuisance. The commanders had too much to do to shoot machine guns. However I kept mine and it was ready to fire. Without any target in sight I sprayed the apple trees with a nice long burst and a German dropped down. This surprised and fascinated me, I watched him pick himself up and with his arms raised come running towards me, no more than 30 yards. Suddenly he hit a single strand of wire about chest high and fell base over apex backwards, however he picked himself up and came on. I had hit him in the right hand. I signalled for him to pass behind me and away he went (later I inquired and was told he was alright and that he was in the bag). At this point we were told to withdraw so we pulled back only to hear on the radio that one tank had stalled and wouldn’t start, I expect the driver was punching the panic button, out in the open with a stalled engine can be nasty. I knew exactly where he was so came up on the air and said not to worry I’d pull him in. Giving my driver instructions to turn and be on his toes for a while we doubled back. Looking back now it’s queer to think that we were pulling each other to pieces with jokes while we hitched up the tanks in full view of the Germans, but I find that the immediate problem is the one that counts not what might happen. Needless to say that tank started up right away and gave no more trouble during its very short life."

    "Then we moved to a place called Fontenay Le Pesnel and it happened that we didn’t know the area, anyway our approach was stinking, we came over a hill so close together it must have been a dream target to the Germans, they knocked out the tanks each side of me, the crews were out in a flash and one ran to my tank and I could see he was asking “which way”, I had time to point and we were away like hell, I had told my driver to move and fast down the slope towards a clump of trees, now I had a moment to tell the crew on the inter-com what we were up to, telling the driver to swing left before the trees, stay in the open and get back up the slope putting on all speed, which wasn’t much as we got near where we’d come out, there was a gap and we made it. I heard a cheer go up and was surprised to find the rest of the squadron there while two tanks had gone into the clump, telling my crew to take it easy I jumped down and as I did a young officer walking towards me kicked a phosphorous bomb and was covered with the damn stuff, I called to my crew to throw down the gentian violet and covered his face with it and he was taken off in an ambulance but was back next day none the worse. Two days later he was killed."

    "Later that day I was told to stay on outpost, my tank troop with infantry to hold the high ground. Nothing happened until about 3am when I called over the sentry and told him I was getting down, he would then stay until I got back up. This was the first time I’d been down in the dark and when I looked at the tank it was an amazing sight, covered in phosphorous, shining like a bloody beacon. The sentry said he noticed it but didn’t know if we kept them like that! So out came the crew and the rest of the night was spent removing the asbestos grease we had used for scaling and covering each spot of phosphorous. We spent three days and nights up there with only radio contact. The CO came up on the air at one point and said they were going to break out and saying he was sorry but we had to stay on the hill and hoped we’d soon move up again, but that was cancelled. The day after we got down it appears the Germans were bringing in more tanks."


    And then it goes on to describe what looks to me like the 1st July 1944 defence of Rauray: Defence of Rauray by the 24th Lancers, Tyneside Scottish et alia

    Notes:

    1. Sgt. Eric Hanson was the tank commander of the 2nd (Sgts tank) in the 5th (Firefly) Troop - i.e. a Sherman 17-pdr.

    Eric_Hanson.JPG

    2. Gd's tank with the "0.5 machinegun mounted on top of the turret," was the Sgts tank in the 1st Troop of "C" sqd 24th L - a Sherman 75mm.

    3. The tank that stalled and was rescued was the Sgt's tank in the 3rd Troop of "C" sqd 24th L - a Sherman 75mm - Sgt. "Spud" Taylor of "C" Squadron. Nb. there was another, completely different "Spud" Taylor in "A" squadron of the 24th L.
    "Spud Taylor" of "C" sqd 24th L was wounded and evacuated back to the UK. Spud Taylor of "A" squadron 24th L was KIA in Normandy 8d6m1944.

    4. The tanks on either side that were knocked out nr. Fontenay-Le-Pesnel were, I would think, the Officer (Lt.Hawkin's) and Corporal's (Cpl Corbett) tanks in the 1st Troop of "C" sqd 24th L - 2 x Sherman 75mm.

    Nb. there is actually a ref. in NHL on p99, nr. the bottom of the page relating to 17th June 1944 with "The situation was maintained until last telescope light, 10.00pm, when C squadron, who had lost two tanks on the way up relieved them" there's a chance perhaps that these "two" were from 1st Troop of "C" but I think, at the moment, these were another entirely different two "C" squadron 24th L tanks, lost quite a few days before (i.e 17d6m1944) as the detail about the phosphorous bomb exploding and covering the tank sounds to me like it occurred during daylight, and the phosphorous actually on the tank was only noticed "the first time" he'd "been down in the dark". Counting back from the Defence of Rauray on 1st July 1944 I should say that those 2 tanks of the 1st Troop of "C" 24th L were lost nr. Fontenay circa. 25th June 1944 and the "high ground" that they were holding was somewhere around Tessel Wood perhaps.

    (At. the. mo. I think perhaps the other 2 "C" squadron tanks lost "on the way up" around 17th June 1944 - were possibly of the 3rd or even 2nd Troop of "C" - given some of the reports of the wounded of "C" squadron mentioned in the Lancer Life's: 24th Lancers Newsletter: 'Lancer Life'.


    e.g. among other's mentioning members of "C" squadron there, in the "News from Casualties" in the 3rd Lancer Life: "Trp. Ward “C” Sqd writes on June 28th from the Royal Infirmary, Edinburgh, to say he has a hole “big enough to put a couple of cigars in” running through the calf of his left leg. “Has Ben got over having to leave the whisky behind?” he asks. From the number of times he mentions Lieutenant Clive Dixon in his two letters it is clear that this officer counted for much in the troop. If they did not already know it, they will (be) sad to hear that his left hand had to be amputated. The ambulance drivers, who are used to seeing a good many casualties, have never ceased to talk about the bravery of a young officer who made light of his wounds, and kept up a lively conversation with them all the way to the dressing station."

    Nb. There's a ref. in NHL on p171 to Lt.C.Dixon being WIA on Sunday 11th June 1944. Trp.Ward presumably was a casualty sometime between 9th-28th June so prior to 1st July Rauray. And apparently knowing Lt.Dixon well was perhaps in his troop or tank.

    The ref. to the 2x"C" tanks knocked out circa 25th-27th nr. Fontenay in my gd's account does not, I think, appear to ref. there being any obvious "C" squadron casualties - with "they knocked out the tanks each side of me, the crews were out in a flash "

    And see also thread: How granddad lost a bottle of whiskey (and a Sherman tank) in

    And particularly for Trooper Ward, this post in that thread: How granddad lost a bottle of whiskey (and a Sherman tank) in Normandy
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
  7. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Here is the alphabetical list of some of the names I have variously seen associated with "C" Squadron of the 24th Lancers:

    (I'll try to edit in some additional details - various links etc. - where possible)

    Adamson, James Dixon (WIA 9d6m1944)
    Allen, G.W. :
    Arbuthnot, Robert (KIA 30d6m1944)
    Attwood, Leonard George (KIA 9or10d6m1944):
    Austin, W.S. :

    Baldwin, J.P. :
    Barnaby, S.E. : (Posted on disbandment to 3RTR)
    Baxter, Ronald C.H. : (Posted on disbandment to SRY - KIA 14d8m1944)
    Beagrie, E. :
    Beddow, James (Jim) : (Unposted reinforcement on disbandment - Xiv - 270 FDS)
    Beddow, Len : "Gunner" (Posted on disbandment to SRY)
    Bedford, R. :
    Beer, G.R. (Ginger) : (Unposted reinforcement on disbandment - Xiv - 270 FDS)
    Brindley, Cyril Arthur : (KIA 10/6/1944)
    Burnet, Cyril E. : (Posted on disbandment to SRY - (KIA 10d9m1944)

    Compton, Henry Patrick : (KIA 10d6m1944)
    Constable, Arthur Robert : (WIA - Normandy, Died of wounds - UK - 1d7m1944)
    Cooper, R.E. : (Unposted reinforcement on disbandment - Xiv - 37 RHU)
    Cooper, Stan, J :
    Corbett, P W ? Or perhaps T : (Unposted reinforcement on disbandment - Xiv - att 30 Corps)
    Cowley, J. "Noel" :
    Cox :
    Crane, Jack Hemery : KIA 24d10m1942 - Casualty
    Crow, C.B. : (Unposted reinforcement on disbandment - Xiv - 270 FDS)

    Darby, L.V. : (Unposted reinforcement on disbandment - Xiv - 270 FDS)
    Dixon, Clive: (WIA - 11d6m1944)

    Eley Frederick William James: (Posted on disbandment to SRY - KIA 14d8m1944)

    Garai, Bertram Henry : (WIA 9d6m1944)
    Gray, D.G.D : (WIA 10d6m1944)

    Hanson, Eric (WIA early June 1944)
    Haskins, L. Chris : (Posted on disbandment to 23H)
    Hawkins A.C. : (Posted on disbandment to 4/7RDG)
    Haygarth, Stan : (Posted on disbandment to 1RTR) - Subject of the book "Dalesman's War"

    Jackson W. (Bill?) : (Posted on disbandment to 1RTR)
    Jewel B.A. : (Posted on disbandment to 2FF Yeo)

    Kenworthy, Harry : (Posted on disbandment to 3RTR)

    Lambourne, C.F. : (Wireless Operator) - (Posted on disbandment to SRY)
    Law, J. : (Unposted reinforcement on disbandment - Xiv - 37 RHU)
    Little, Arthur William Athelstan : (Posted on disbandment to 3RTR - KIA 2d8m1944)

    Mant, William (Bill) Charles Henry : (KIA 8d6m1944)
    Mills, A.F.C. : (Posted on disbandment to 1RTR)
    Munson, A.J. : (Posted on disbandment to 3RTR)

    Newnham, Eric R : (KIA 10d6m1944)

    Parr, Ben H. : (Posted on disbandment to 2FF Yeo)

    Robinson, L. F. : "Gunner" (Posted on disbandment to SRY)

    Scot, R.P. : (Major - In NHL on p25)
    Scott, "Ted" Edward? : (In NHL on p6 and 210)
    Simmons, John (Jonny) Drayson : (Posted on disbandment to SRY - KIA 22d11m1944)
    Simpson, E.C. (Busty) : "Gunner" - Possibly the "Simpson, K.C or G - posted to 23H" on the disbandment roll.
    Smith, "Sid" : (In NHL p6)
    Stone, "Ricco" Tom : (In NHL p6)
    Symes, Ben W.A. : (Posted on disbandment to SRY)

    Taylor "Spud" : (WIA early in June 1944, after hospital posted to 2FF Yeo)
    Turner, Thomas Stanley : (KIA 1d7m1944)

    Wager, Arthur Charles Manfred : (KIA 8d6m1944)
    Ward, F.P. : Driver/Operator (Posted on disbandment to 1RTR)
    Ward, G.D. : Driver/Operator (Posted ARG for Xiv UK)
    Warrington, (Aggie) Clifford V. : (Posted on disbandment to 4/7RDG - KIA 27d8m1944)
    West, Reginald Frank : KIA 1d7m1944
    Whitcher, Lionel : (Unposted reinforcement on disbandment - Xiv - 270 FDS)
    Wilcox, William : (Posted on disbandment to 4/7RDG - Awarded Military medal - 19/11/1944)
    Williams, C.B.C : "Driver" (Posted on disbandment to SRY)

    Uncertain

    Yorke (mentioned in passing on p6 of NHL - albeit in ref. to his being a candidate for the Guards - who "perhaps made it in the end" ?)
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2018
  8. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    (Still rough and ready working out ;-)

    I have grouped what "C" Sqd 24th L names I have here, with this possibly giving some further indications etc. of who potentially was in which troop, and tank of "C" Sqd of the 24th L - assuming, quite often the crews tended to stick together when posted and injuries and KIA's etc. where they occur, often being associated with the actions of the same troop and with crews in the same tanks.

    KIA with the 24th L in Normandy - Sorted alphabetically

    Arbuthnot, Robert (KIA 30d6m1944)
    Attwood, Leonard George (KIA 10d6m1944)
    Brindley, Cyril Arthur : (KIA 10/6/1944)
    Compton, Henry Patrick : (KIA 10d6m1944)
    Constable, Arthur Robert : (WIA - Normandy, Died of wounds - UK - 1d7m1944)
    Mant, William (Bill) Charles Henry : (KIA 8d6m1944)
    Newnham, Eric R : (KIA 10d6m1944)
    Turner, Thomas Stanley : (KIA 1d7m1944)
    Wager, Arthur Charles Manfred : (KIA 8d6m1944)
    West, Reginald Frank : KIA 1d7m1944

    WIA in Normandy with 24th L - Sorted alphabetically

    Adamson, James Dixon (WIA 9d6m1944)
    Dixon, Clive: (WIA - 11d6m1944)
    Garai, Bertram Henry : (WIA 9d6m1944)
    Gray, D.G.D : (WIA 10d6m1944)
    Hanson, Eric (WIA early June 1944)
    Taylor "Spud" : (WIA early in June 1944, after hospital posted to 2FF Yeo)

    KIA & WIA in Normandy with 24th L - Sorted by date

    Mant, William (Bill) Charles Henry : (KIA 8d6m1944)
    Wager, Arthur Charles Manfred : (KIA 8d6m1944)

    Adamson, James Dixon (WIA 9d6m1944)
    Garai, Bertram Henry : (WIA 9d6m1944) - T/C Firefly
    Currently unknown (WIA 9d6m1944) - i.e. the 4th member of Bertram Garai's Firefly. (Perhaps a "Trooper Ward" listed as "C" Sqd in the Lancer Life's is a possibility???)

    (Potentially the KO'd tank and crew commanded by Lt.D.Gray)
    Brindley, Cyril Arthur : (KIA 9or10/6/1944)
    Attwood, Leonard George (KIA 10d6m1944)
    Compton, Henry Patrick : (KIA 10d6m1944)
    Gray, D.G.D : (WIA 10d6m1944) - T/C "Charlie - Four - Able" : Lt.David G.D.Gray
    Newnham, Eric R : (KIA 10d6m1944)

    Unknown WIA date - Constable, Arthur Robert : (WIA - Normandy June 1944, Died of wounds - UK - 1d7m1944)

    Arbuthnot, Robert (KIA 30d6m1944)

    Nb. there were reported to be 2x"C" Squadron Shermans KO'd on 1d7m1944 at Rauray (which Troop and tanks these were in - I think - still to be confirmed)
    Turner, Thomas Stanley : (KIA 1d7m1944)
    West, Reginald Frank : KIA 1d7m1944

    Currently date of WIA unknown -

    Unknown WIA date - Constable, Arthur Robert : (WIA - Normandy, Died of wounds - UK - 1d7m1944)
    Foster, T.N. (Trooper)
    Hanson, Eric (WIA early June 1944) - T/C Firefly
    Irving, W. (Trooper)
    Martin, F. (Trooper)
    Price, W. (Trooper)
    Rowsell, G. (Trooper)
    Taylor "Spud" : (WIA early in June 1944, after hospital posted to 2FF Yeo)
    Ward : "Trp. Ward “C” Sqd writes on June 28th from the Royal Infirmary, Edinburgh, to say he has a hole “big enough to put a couple of cigars in” running through the calf of his left leg. "Ref.Lancer Life"

    Upon disbandment of the 24th L - the following are the "C" Squadron 24th Lancers - I have - so far - found on the 24th L disbandment roll - ref: 24th Lancers Regimental Nominal Roll and Postings August 1944
    - and where they were reported to be subsequently posted to.

    Posted to 1RTR

    Haygarth, Stan : (Posted on disbandment to 1RTR) - Subject of the book "Dalesman's War"
    Jackson W. (Bill?) : (Posted on disbandment to 1RTR)
    Mills, A.F.C. : (Posted on disbandment to 1RTR)
    Ward, F.P. : Driver/Operator (Posted on disbandment to 1RTR)

    Posted to 3RTR

    Barnaby, S.E. : (Posted on disbandment to 3RTR) - T/C Firefly
    Kenworthy, Harry : (Posted on disbandment to 3RTR)
    Little, Arthur William Athelstan : (Posted on disbandment to 3RTR - KIA 2d8m1944)
    Munson, A.J. : (Posted on disbandment to 3RTR)

    Posted to 44RTR

    Allen, G.W. : (Posted on disbandment to 44RTR)

    Posted to SRY - (potentially looks like 2 x Sherman 75mm at the mo. - (SRY#1) & (SRY#2))


    The following potentially two crews of two of the 24th L tanks attached to "B" Sqd SRY around 1d8m1944.

    SRY#1=Lt.Cameron,Baxter,Eley,Robinson
    SRY#2=Burnet???,Lambourne,Williams,Simmons,Beddow

    Baxter, Ronald C.H. : (Posted on disbandment to SRY - KIA 14d8m1944) (SRY#1)
    Beddow, Len : "Gunner" (Posted on disbandment to SRY) - (SRY#2)
    Burnet, Cyril E. : (Posted on disbandment to SRY - (KIA 10d9m1944) - (SRY#1???)
    Eley Frederick William James: (Posted on disbandment to SRY - KIA 14d8m1944) (SRY#1)
    Lambourne, C.F. : (Wireless Operator) - (Posted on disbandment to SRY) (SRY#2)
    Robinson, L. F. : "Gunner" (Posted on disbandment to SRY - WIA 14d8m1944) (SRY#1)
    Simmons, John (Jonny) Drayson : (Posted on disbandment to SRY - KIA 22d11m1944) (SRY#2)
    Symes, Ben W.A. : (Posted on disbandment to SRY - HQ Sqd)
    Williams, C.B.C : "Driver" (Posted on disbandment to SRY) (SRY#1)

    Posted to 23H

    Haskins, L. Chris : (Posted on disbandment to 23H)
    Simpson, E.C. (Busty) : "Gunner" - Possibly the "Simpson, K.C or G - posted to 23H" on the disbandment roll.

    Posted to 4/7RDG

    Hawkins A.C. : (Posted on disbandment to 4/7RDG)
    Warrington, (Aggie) Clifford V. : (Posted on disbandment to 4/7RDG - KIA 27d8m1944)
    Wilcox, William : (Posted on disbandment to 4/7RDG - Awarded Military medal - 19/11/1944)

    Posted to 2FF Yeo

    Jewel B.A. : (Posted on disbandment to 2FF Yeo)
    Parr, Ben H. : (Posted on disbandment to 2FF Yeo)

    Unposted reinforcements – to Xiv - 270 FDS

    Potentially five of these may be the crew of "Charlie - Four - Baker" : T/C Sgt.G.R. ("Ginger") Beer

    Beagrie, E. : (Unposted reinforcement on disbandment - Xiv - 270 FDS)
    Beddow, James (Jim) : (Unposted reinforcement on disbandment - Xiv - 270 FDS)
    Beer, G.R. (Ginger) : (Unposted reinforcement on disbandment - Xiv - 270 FDS)
    Crow, C.B. : (Unposted reinforcement on disbandment - Xiv - 270 FDS)
    Darby, L.V. : (Unposted reinforcement on disbandment - Xiv - 270 FDS)
    Whitcher, Lionel : (Unposted reinforcement on disbandment - Xiv - 270 FDS)

    Unposted reinforcements – to Xiv – 37 RHU

    Bedford, R. : (Unposted reinforcement on disbandment - Xiv - 37 RHU)
    Cooper, R.E. : (Unposted reinforcement on disbandment - Xiv - 37 RHU)
    Law, J. : (Unposted reinforcement on disbandment - Xiv - 37 RHU)

    Unposted reinforcements – to Xiv – att 30 Corps

    Corbett, P W ? Or perhaps T : (Unposted reinforcement on disbandment - Xiv - att 30 Corps)

    Unposted reinforcements

    Ward, G.D. : Driver/Operator (Posted ARG for Xiv UK)

    Currently “Unknown”

    Austin, W.S. :
    Cooper, Stan, J :
    Cowley, J. "Noel" :
    Cox :
    Scott, "Ted" Edward? : (In NHL on p6)
    Smith, "Sid" : (In NHL p6)
    Stone, "Ricco" Tom : (In NHL p6)

    Left “C” Sqd 24th L prior to Normandy

    Scot, R.P. : (Major - In NHL on p25)
    Crane, Jack Hemery : KIA 24d10m1942 - Casualty
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
    stolpi likes this.
  9. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    This picture of njvetter's (ref: 24th Lancers )

    [​IMG]

    .....is rather strikingly similar to that of the "B" Squadron "Officers and Sergeants" on p34 of NHL taken at Lakenheath, Suffolk, 25th January 1943.

    And, speculatively, is perhaps either of the Recce Troop of the 24th L (with Captain Voller at the centre) - or perhaps a matching "Officers and Sergeants" one of "C" Squadron 24th L. Since the similarity with the "B" squadron - "Officers and Sergeants" - pic is just so marked.

    Another perhaps more likely alternative, I suppose, is just that these pictures were of various groups of 24th L men involved in a variety of different tasks in exercises, one of which involved the officers and sergeants of "B" (with their picture shown p34 of NHL) and this one, a different, more mixed group of other 24th L's involved in some other task etc. - and some evidence pointing to this Trooper Norman Vetter, who I think is the chap - second in from the right - of the picture was, I think in HQ Squadron of the 24th L - KIA 8d6m1944 : Casualty

    One of the original questions was - "can anyone identify any of these 24th Lancers".
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
  10. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    I have had a very "quick" go ;-) at a rather basic org. chart for "C" Squadron of the 24th Lancers - around the time of embarking for D-Day... (This I hope to update with further pictures and details etc.) - especially re. NCO's and potentially down to troopers in each individual tank etc.

    C_Sqd_24th_L_Basic_Squadron_Org.JPG
     
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  11. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    For this picture of the "Old Comrades" of the 24th Lancers... taken in May 1947...

    24th_Lancers_Old_Comrades_May_1947.JPG

    "C" squadron of the 24th Lancers seems perhaps to be in a group seated in the foreground. i.e. with the photographer being positioned on the lower left hand side of this rough seating plan...

    OCA_Seating_Arangement_Plan.JPG

    Simples.JPG
     
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  12. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Re. Sidney Smith... who is mentioned a couple of times in "None Had Lances" as joining the 24th Lancers in December 1940, and going into "C" squadron... "complete with smart overcoat, homburg hat and wonder of wonders a billiard cue in a case"

    Sidney Smith (snooker player) - Wikipedia

     
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  13. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    A bit more detective work ;-) I am looking at this particular frame (7min 15seconds in) from the IWM film at: THE 8TH ARMOURED BRIGADE ENTRAINS AT NEWMARKET TO TRANSFER TO ITS PRE-INVASION ASSEMBLY AREA IN SOUTHERN ENGLAND (PART 3) [Allocated Title]

    THE 8TH ARMOURED BRIGADE ENTRAINS AT NEWMARKET TO TRANSFER TO ITS
    PRE-INVASION ASSEMBLY AREA IN SOUTHERN ENGLAND (PART 3) [Allocated
    Title]

    Description:
    An LNER signalman (Mr J G Hayward) leaves his signal box to close the gates at Wood Ditton level crossing. The wheels of a train dash by over the crossing. 10/4/1944, three men from the 24th Lancers (?) load kit from the back of a lorry into a baggage van at Newmarket Old Station. Two officers are seen addressing a party of 24th Lancers on a station platform prior to their train journey. Two locomotives in tandem pull ten Shermans and Fireflies loaded onto 'Warflats' and a passenger coach through Six Mile Bottom station. An M5 half-track and a Valentine Scissors Bridgelayer belonging to the 4/7th Dragoon Guards are driven onto 'Conflats' at Newmarket. 11/4/1944, accompanied by the RAF Flight Lieutenant in charge of railway transport in the Cambridge area, Eisenhower inspects vehicles belonging to the 24th Lancers awaiting despatch on 'Conflats'. He is introduced to the station master and railway superintendent.


    I am wondering if it may show a number of troopers from "C" squadron of the 24th L.

    The "Two officers" - "seen addressing a party of 24th Lancers on a station platform prior to their train journey" -
    I think are a Troop Sergeant (not sure tho. if that's 3 or 4 stripes) and an officer.

    Newmarket_Unidentified_24th_Ls.JPG
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
    General Knowledge and SDP like this.
  14. Thanks for sharing this. I would love for the officers to move out the way so we could see the rest of the troop! Loved watching the film! I wonder if Len has seen this!
    I am pretty much involved with WW1 at the moment and doing a lot of research, but still fascinated with my relatives journey.

    TC
    Linda
    PS He is still writing poetry, he sent me one the other week. It was a love poem (not to me I hasten to add) to show me he writes more than war poems!
     
  15. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    There was a recent (Sunday 23rd December 2018) article here: OVERLORD'S BLOG: Gift of a Tank

    Referencing Major Noel Cowley and C Squadron, 24th Lancers e.g.

    "As night fell on the 9th of June 1944, Major Noel Cowley was in his hull down Sherman on point 103 in Normandy. The Rest of C Squadron, 24th Lancers, were hiding in the bushes and what cover they could find. The dark green shapes were just black blobs against the black trees and bushes. Off in the distance some flames and smoke issued from the village of St Pierre. The town was occupied by unseen members of the Durham Light Infantry. Beyond them were the German held lands, and the tanks of Panzer Lehr. From their position C Squadron was to cover the DLI overnight."
     
  16. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

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