24th Lancers - Roll of Honour

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by Ramiles, Jan 10, 2016.

  1. norton 407545

    norton 407545 Well-Known Member

    Captain Ian Kerr
    Jerusalem war cemetery
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Re. Ian Kerr. (KIA - 26/6/1944) : Casualty Details

    There's quite a bit about Ian Kerr in "None Had Lances", including a few pictures of him, among some other friends there.

    He took over B squadron briefly after it's former squadron leader, Roy Bennett, was wounded, but was then killed himself "by an 88mm" whilst "trying to locate a Tiger hiding somewhere behind some farm buildings", "the rest of the crew managed to get away".

    The 24th WD has quite a big entry for the 26th June 1944 (i.e. compared with that for many other days) detailing some of the fierce fighting around Tessel Wood. However the only entry I could find for a "Kerr" in the transcribed WD was the bit where a "2nd Lt. J.Kerr" joined the 24th L during the period from 30th Jan 1941 to Feb 1941, and I assume that this is Ian. With a slight typo replacing the "I" with a "J" there.

    Edit: TRAINING TANK DRIVERS

    IWM caption:
    DESCRIPTION
    Object description
    Original wartime caption: The Squadron Leader, Lt. Ian Kerr, who was a farmer from Midlothian, Scotland.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2020
  3. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  4. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Trooper Leonard George Attwood (KIA 9or10d6m1944): Casualty Details

    And: Fallen Heroes of Normandy | Detail

    Nb. both of the above say KIA 9/6/1944, however NHL seems to say on p90 that L.G.Attwood was KIA on the 10th June 1944.

    Attwood was in "C" squadron of the 24th L and potentially, I suppose he might have been KIA on the evening/night of the 9th i.e. as the WD of the 24th L says:

    9/6/1944 During the afternoon the Regiment supported a Battalion of the DLI in an attack on St Pierre which was largely successful, and at last light the Regiment, less ‘C’ Sqn, who were to remain in St Pierre overnight, returned to the perimeter of Pt 103.

    Pt 103
    10/6/44 At first light, 3 of ‘C’ Sqn tanks together with the Sqn Leader who was wounded arrived at Pt 103 and reported heavy opposition from St Pierre and fire from enemy tanks in the area. The DLI, in the village had suffered heavy casualties and the remainder of the Regiment left Pt 103 and advanced to St Pierre

    But I think that this is a case of fog of war, as to whether he was KIA in the initial "attack" or thereafter in the counterattack. Unless there is also something about this in the Tilly book?

    All the best,

    Rm.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2018
  5. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Trooper Cyril Arthur Brindley (KIA 9-10/6/1944): Casualty Details

    And: Fallen Heroes of Normandy | Detail

    Was also in C squadron of the 24th L (As was L.G.Attwood, see post immediately above) - and CWGC currently says for the date of his death - "Between 09/06/1944 and 10/06/1944".



    Recently I was reading one of the Newsletters at: News and Events

    This pdf: http://www.iccy.org.uk/uploads/9/4/8/5/9485116/vanguard_2014.pdf

    And "Bertram began his military service in the 24th Lancers, a pre WWII war Indian Army unit restored to the army orbat when the army was being enlarged to meet the threat from the Axis. The 24th was eventually equipped with Sherman Tanks in preparation for D-Day and it was as 5 troop leader in C Squadron of the 24th that Bertram landed on Gold Beach in Normandy three days after D-day, a short distance from Graye sur Mer. On the 24th’s first day in action, Bertram’s tank* received a shell through the driver’s visor"

    (Nb. Bertram's driver was killed, and it is rather graphic after that) - however later it says: "We have received from Bertram’s family some diary notes which Bertram made, contrary to Standing Orders, about training in 1943 for D-Day and of the landing and the aftermath. We hope to publish extracts from the notes in the next issue of Vanguard." (Rm - Presumably the summation of 2015 - which "Vanguard" should hopefully be available sometime this year)

    * Bertram was the troop leader of the 24th L's "C" squadron Firefly troop.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2016
  6. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Captain J. Kenneth Gill

    The Intelligence Officer of the 24th L is mentioned a number of times in detail and in passing in NHL and my grandfather too seems to reference him occasionally in some of his correspondence from Normandy.

    In the section on the Old Comrades Association in NHL (p209-210) it mentions that he annually helped organise the associations reunion Dinner at the Eccleston Hotel, London in March.

    SDP - do you happen to know what the "J" stood for in his name by-the-way :)

    Gd. said in his correspondence that he knew a bloke with the nickname "Aggil" in Normandy and I had half thought this might be someone called "A. Gill" potentiality. But if you say "Kenneth Gill" I suppose at a stretch you could get "Aggil" out of it?

    All the best,

    Rm.
     
  7. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Another possibility (at a stretch) re. the above chap granddad referred to as "Aggil" is perhaps an ex. 24th L:

    Clifford Victor Warrington (KIA 27/08/1944): Casualty Details

    It says on p63 of NHL, on the way to embarking for D-day, Sgt Aggie Warrington's tank broke down and he had to miss the boat. (from the index to NHL p245 this is seemingly Warrinton, C).

    From other info (SDP) Warrington was the tank commander of the 2nd tank in the 2nd troop of "C" squadron 24th L.

    And it looks as though he was transferred to 4th/7th Royal Dragoon Guards when the 24th were disbanded at the end of July.

    I have no idea however how "Aggie" got this nickname: Aggie - Wikipedia

    AGAMEMNON, though is often also used by the British as a tank name: http://mmpbooks.biz/mmp/tables/Vehicle_Names_V1.pdf

    But I don't know if Agamemnon was a tank name the 24th L used.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  8. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    I have seen a few mentions of "Robinsons" in the 24th Lancers including:

    N.Robinson (Norman) - a trooper, co-driver, mentioned in "None Had Lances". See also: WW2Talk

    Norman Robinson (KIA 12/6/1944) : Casualty Details
    & : Fallen Heroes of Normandy | Detail

    Trooper D.S.Robinson ('B' Squadron) ref'd here: WW2Talk

    And a "Robinson" my grandfather mentioned in a letter, when he is talking about some of the wounded: "Robinson, he was an operator (Wireless a Gunner, these chaps get me mixed up, he’s up in Scotland and doing fine"


    [sharedmedia=gallery:images:29591]

    Who seems to have been at one point in granddad's troop. The "Robinson" I think that my grandfather was referring to there was L.F.Robinson, one of the 24th L transferred to the SRY at the end of July/start of August 1944.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2016
  9. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Len Beddow

    Found this via google:

    http://www.blackcountrybugle.co.uk/Gallantly-fought-gave/story-20119767-detail/story.html

    "In response to the article in Bugle 554 about Dudley born Corporal Ivan Powell, a member of the Sherwood Rangers who received the Military Medal for his bravery during the latter stages of the Second World War, Len Beddow from Wolverhampton has contacted us with some memories of his own.

    "I read the article on Ivan Powell with a great deal of interest and thought it was a good excuse to put pen to paper and send in a poem I wrote at the time of 'Operation Market Garden'.
    "On D-Day in June 1944, I landed on the Normandy Beaches as a member of the 24th Lancers, but the troop suffered severe casualties and was immediately disbanded and seconded to the Rangers to become 1st Troop Sherwood Rangers. I saw action at Geilenkirchen where as a tank gunner I remember firing a lot of ammunition. But it was at Beeck near Nijmegen where I composed my poem, words which bring back so many vivid memories."

    Len's poem is reproduced at right:"

    Oddly "truncated" page seemingly though??? Nothing more to go on as seems to be "all he wrote" there or at least all the webpage currently has :(

    Read more: http://www.blackcountrybugle.co.uk/...tory-20119767-detail/story.html#ixzz45QaApc00
    Follow us: @BCBugle on Twitter | BCBugle on Facebook


    To tie in with this - My grandfather wrote in a letter from Normandy circa 12th June 1944:

    "At the moment we are having a rest, I have Willy and L/C Lambourne with me and I hope to get young Beddow soon, I had to lend him out. Yesterday we had a run around to find the right place to go, we still haven’t found it, but they have given us some food and looked after us very well here, suits us fine. We have a Daily Express for Saturday the 10th, the news is accurate, so is the B.B.C. news. We have acquired a radio and are praying the batteries hold out."

    [sharedmedia=gallery:images:29465]

    Slight belatedly found the BCBugle site's search function brought up this: http://www.blackcountrybugle.co.uk/Forgottenby-Len-Beddow/story-28406685-detail/story.html

    Which has the poem "Not Forgotten" - which I think is the one mentioned above.

    As well as: http://www.blackcountrybugle.co.uk/...dal-71-years/story-27966775-detail/story.html

    Which has some biographical info. re. the 24th Lancers and SRY as well as mentioning some of those he served with in the regiments, including his twin brother Jim, as well as "four mates who never made it back from the war: Johnny Simmons, Arthur Wager, Fred Ely and Ron Baxter"

    And re. the book "Black Country Man" : Black Country Man Book Launch | Multistory

    With a bit of video on the launch here: Black Country Man | Multistory

    "this publication was commissioned by Multistory to explore the lives of 27 men who originate from, or who now live, in the Black Country. Their stories offer personal, real life accounts of an area that is rich in history and heritage." - one of those interviewed being Len Beddow.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  10. norton 407545

    norton 407545 Well-Known Member

    Trooper H P Compton
    24th Lancers
    KIA 10th June 1944
     

    Attached Files:

    Ramiles likes this.
  11. James Kenneth GILL (184250), commissioned 19 Apr 41:
    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/35153/supplement/2586

    He apparently went to 22 Dragoons:
    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/36977/supplement/1366

    became a full Captain on 1 Jan 49:
    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/38668/supplement/3534

    and then to the Reserve, 27 Sep 52:
    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/39653/supplement/5080

    Michel
     
    Ramiles likes this.
  12. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Lance Corporal William Currie Armstrong

    KIA 13/7/1944 : Casualty Details

    And: Fallen Heroes of Normandy | Detail

    None Had Lances (NHL) - puts him in HQ squadron of the 24th Lancers.

    He potentially died due to mortar fire on the position - as it is noted in the 24th L war diary that on this date i.e. on 13/7/1944 the 24th L sustained KIA's due to shelling nr. Conde-S-Seules

    13/7/44 In the early morning at about 0645 hours, several enemy shells fell in the Regimental area killing two men and wounding three others, one of which was the Officer commanding AI echelon. In the afternoon ‘A’ Sqn went forward to area North of Hottot in support 231 Bde.

    NHL (None Had Lances) has a bit more detail about this on p168 - where it says that the shelling came from Hottot about 5 miles away and as well as the KIA Armstrong there was a KIA of a Royal Corps of Signals corporal, whilst wounded was Captain Tom Parsons (who was presumably the "Officer commanding AI echelon") and B sqd. S.S.M Shelton.

    The KIA "Royal Corps of Signals corporal" might possibly be the Royal Corps of Signals corporal (Latham) mentioned there: Casualty Details

    And there is a pic on p34 of NHL that says "B sqd officers and sergeants" - and there is a "Shelton" in the front row of this picture on p34 that is perhaps the one mentioned above in the first paragraph as being the "B sqd. S.S.M Shelton" wounded there.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  13. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Trooper John Drayson Simmons

    KIA 22/11/1944 - Whilst serving with the SRY

    Casualty Details

    The following has him being transferred from the 24th L to the SRY on 31/7/1944
    24th Lancers Regimental Nominal Roll and Postings August 1944

    Though I can't seem to see him mentioned in NHL (i.e. on page 235) - which is unusual.

    Also saw his name mentioned here: Joy as Len gets France's top military medal 71 years later

    By Len Beddow - "I also accept it on behalf of my four mates who never made it back from the war. "They were: Johnny Simmons, Arthur Wager, Fred Ely and Ron Baxter. We were all mates together", he continued, "and they deserve as much credit as I do for being part of the liberation of France. I think about them a lot. It was like having an extended family. They weren't from this neck of the woods, they came from all over the country, but they were the best mates I ever had."

    Edit: The Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry 1939-1945

    "Trooper John Drayton Simmons

    Tpr.Simmons, from Cheshire, had served with the 24th Lancers until they were disbanded in the field on 29th July 1944.
    He joined the Sherwood Rangers and was posted to C Squadron.
    On 22nd November 1944 during their attack on the village of Apweiler, Germany, supporting the US 405th Combat Team, his tank hit a mine and he was killed instantly.
    John Simmons now lies in Reichswald War Cemetery, Kleve, Germany.
    "

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
  14. norton 407545

    norton 407545 Well-Known Member

    Rm By coincidence I see a photo of len beddow earlier today after he was transferred to the SRY. So i guess he's is referring to receiving his Legion of Honour?
    You say Trooper J D Simmons not listed in The roll of Honour in NHL? Very strange
    Maybe one they missed Do you think?
    Thought I'd post the picture of len he is the smallest chap on the picture.
    This was the picture of len I meant to post earlier
    I must be having a bad day. I blame the weather
     
  15. norton 407545

    norton 407545 Well-Known Member

    Rm I don't know if page 235 is the roll of Honour pages. So i could be getting the wrong end of the stick? But I do have a few pics of the Roll of Honour and Trooper J Simmons is indeed on the roll of Honour.
    Regards

    Shaun
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Eh? Shaun :eek:

    There is a Trooper John Simpson on that page: who was KIA whilst serving with the 24th L on 8/6/1944

    Casualty Details

    &

    Fallen Heroes of Normandy | Detail

    But I don't think that they are the same person. Simpson and Simmons. Though having similar first names and admittedly very similar surnames.

    And also therefore not the one Len refs.
    "They were: Johnny Simmons, Arthur Wager, Fred Ely and Ron Baxter. We were all mates together", he continued, "and they deserve as much credit as I do for being part of the liberation of France. I think about them a lot. It was like having an extended family. They weren't from this neck of the woods, they came from all over the country, but they were the best mates I ever had."

    NHL sorts the officers and NCOs by rank / seniority - but the troopers alphabetically by surname. So it is sometimes possible to not see someone who is listed there elsewhere. i.e. as a L/Cpl rather than a trooper if they were promoted (perhaps after leaving the 24th L etc.) - but I just don't see Johnny Simmons there, or in the index either.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  17. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  18. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    Rob and Shaun

    According to the Nominal Roll:
    7963177. Tpr J D Simmons was a Gunner/Mechanic in 'C' Squadron
    7959728. Tpr J Simpson was in 'A' Squadron (Trade not specified).
     
  19. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Thanks SDP,

    Does the nominal roll by the way mention the trade/occupation of

    Trooper Ronald C.H. Baxter (C squadron) 24th L - transferred to the SRY and KIA on 14/8/1944

    Casualty Details

    The Cropper book (Dad's war) gives a list (in an annotated note) of those transferred to the SRY from the 24th L - albeit he (Ronald Baxter) seems to have been (the one name?) perhaps missed off from there (at least I can't see him in the Cropper list) - whereas he is given in None Had Lances on page 233 - in the Roll of Honour there.

    By his trade/occupation it might be possible one day to figure out (or at least narrow down) in which particular tank he might have been.

    All the best,

    Rm.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  20. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic Patron

    14231846 Tpr R C Baxter Gunner/Mechanic in 'C' Squadron.
     
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