The 8th Battalion Sherwood Foresters in Norway April 1940

Discussion in 'WW2 Battlefields Today' started by Steve Foster, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. Steve Foster

    Steve Foster Senior Member

    Letter re 8SF War Diary.jpg

    Maj Roberts diary cover.jpg

    Maj Roberts diary p27.jpg

    Maj Roberts Diary p28.jpg

    View attachment 68792

    Maj Robert's diary p31.jpg

    View attachment 68794

    Whilst I was researching at the NA recently, I found the reason why there was no official War Diary for the 8th Sherwood Foresters in Norway. It was destroyed by enemy action (see letter at first thumbnail). A hand written account of the Action at Tretten, written by Maj Roberts (2i/c of 8SF) whilst a POW, now acts as the official diary.
    I have posted the pages which cover the action at Tretten which give a bleak view of fighting in the snow with only rifles against tanks, mortars and machine guns and eventually running out of ammunition.

    I have learned something of my father's part in the battle through reading the above pages. He was 148 Brig Chief Clerk and I remember him telling me that he formed a rifle platoon from Brigade Staff and joined the rest of the Foresters at the forward position at Rindheim. This is mentioned on P 27 and it seems from the map on p28 that his platoon was situated between Battalion HQ and A Coy positions. This would have been in the sangars in the field overlooking Rindheim Farmhouse. On P32 it states that the Bn CO, 2 1/c (Maj Roberts), Capt Athorpe and two clerks were captured by a German Battalion HQ as they tried to break out to the reserve positions at Tretten. One of those clerks was probably dad as he also told me he was with Lt Col Ford when captured.

    The letter from the Battalion to Army Records regarding the War Diary is of interest in that it states that the hand written diary was taken from Maj Roberts wife by British Censors. This aligns with the fact that survivors who returned to Britain were told not to mention the scale of the defeat to anyone. Looking at the Oflag Official Stamp on the front cover, it appears the German censors were quite happy for the diary to be in the public domain but not the British!

    I have the 148 Brigade War Diary for that period if anyone is interested. It shows how Brigadier Morgan had no freedom to control his own Brigade for all of the period in Norway (it was placed under the control of the Norwegian CinC who split his force and used it in set piece retreats to allow the Norwegian army to retire through the Brigade) until the last battle at Tretten. He immediately brought his Brigade together as one unit and fought the set piece stand at Tretten. The best he could do at the time given the troops had not eaten for five days and were extremely cold. On return to UK he was slated by the High Command for his actions in Norway and given no further Command during the war.
     
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  2. Steve Foster

    Steve Foster Senior Member

    Vardekampen from muck field.JPG

    Vardekampen Heights.JPG

    Lt Col Ford surrenders.JPG

    On page 31 of Maj Robert's diary, he describes how a new firing position was established at the boulder covered base of the the high mountain from where the German infantry was held. The first thumbnail shows the edge of the field where the sangars are situated and the troops would have retired from these and regrouped inside the tree line in the boulders.
    In paragraph 3 on page 32, Maj Roberts describes how all attempts to get back to Tretten over the Vardekampen proved impossible due to a sheer cliff face. Thumbnail 2 shows that cliff face.

    Thumbnail 3 is the moment Lt Col Ford surrendered to the German Battalion HQ. I am assuming the young lad holding the flag is a clerk then the other soldier is either Maj Roberts or Capt Athorpe. Dad may well be the soldier on the very edge of the picture with just his shoulder in picture.

    Steve
     
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  3. BarbaraWT

    BarbaraWT Member

    Hi Steve
    This makes very interesting reading.
    Regards
    Barbara
     
  4. airborne medic

    airborne medic Very Senior Member

    Are the men in the photo 8th SF? Presumably original is in the IWM?
     
  5. billminer

    billminer Member

    Great photo's, good job.
     
  6. Steve Foster

    Steve Foster Senior Member

    Are the men in the photo 8th SF? Presumably original is in the IWM?
    The two photos of Lt Col Ford (CO 8 SF) surrendering are definitely 8SF men. The photograph of a platoon of men marching from Tretten station are definitely 148 Brigade personnel, but may be 5th Leicesters. As they only had two rifle companies in Tretten, the odds are that they are Foresters.
    These photographs were on wall displays at the museum dedicated to Sickle Force at Kvam. I took photos of the photos and wished I had taken more as they were all new material to the Sherwood Foresters regimental historian when I visited him after my trip to Norway.

    The photo of Lt Col Ford being led away at Rindheim was incorrectly labelled as Lt Col German, CO of 5th Leicesters. During my research of the 8th Foresters, I had got to know the face of Col Ford quite well, and that is definitely him. I persuaded the museum currator (after showing him pictures of Cols Ford and German) and he changed the labelling. That picture is partly reproduced in Joseph Kynnock's book of the Norway campaign and again is labelled as Lt Col German. He was not captured until a few days later north of Tretten. Ford is being led away south from Rindheim farmhouse through the gap in the trees where the track enters the forest. This can be seen in my photograph looking down onto Rindheim.

    I have not yet visited the IWM to research the battle at Tretten, it is on my "to do" list in the New Year.

    Regards
    Steve
     
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  7. Steve Foster

    Steve Foster Senior Member

    Now I have found out how to convert tiff. images to jpeg, here are some more photos, hopefully as thumbnails:

    The first is the CWG cemetery at Lillehammer where men of the 8th Sherwood Foresters and 5th Leicesters are buried.
    The second is the CWGs at Biri cemetery on the west side of Lake Mjosa, where a German mortar, fired from the opposite side of the lake scored a direct hit on one of the Norwegian lorries carrying the withdrawing Foresters. The Norwegian driver was also killed.

    The third is a view that the defenders of the bridge at Tretten (the object of the battle was to save it falling into German hands) would have had towards the Vardekampen heights where the majority of Foresters and Leicesters were attempting to hold the German armour. About mid-day, 3 tanks over ran the Tretten position and advanced toward the bridge on the road in the foreground. At the same time Austrian ski troops swept over the saddle to the left of the heights and advanced on the village. A secondary battle ensued exactly where the picture is taken where the Reserve Position, D Coy, half of HQ Coy (Foresters) and Brigade Staff itself tried to hold off the tanks and Ski troops. They held until about 2100 hrs to try and allow men from the overrun position at Rindheim to fall back. None made it as they were all killed, wounded or captured.

    The fourth is the plaque at Lillehammer CWGC cemetery giving an overview of the campaign.

    Steve

    CWG at Lillehammer 2010.JPG

    5 Westforce Graves 2.JPG

    View from Tretten Bridge to Vardekampen.JPG

    Lille Plaque cleaned up.JPG
     
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  8. BarbaraWT

    BarbaraWT Member

    Hi Steve
    Fantastic work.
    Regards
    Barbara
     
  9. dadbilly

    dadbilly Junior Member

    Hello, this is dadbilly's wife. We are all but certain that we see my husband's father in the marching photograph near the back, his name is William Burton and he was in the 8th Battalion and was captured in Tretten. He went on to be held on a work farm in Prussia, where he met his Polish wife, Weronika. Pretty sure I've got most of that right *lol
    We hope to put Bill in touch.
     
  10. Steve Foster

    Steve Foster Senior Member

    Hi,

    I have just looked up W S Burton in the book about the 8th Sherwood Foresters and it says he was held at Stalag XXB Marienburg. His POW number was 4900. Dad was captured at Tretten on 23 April so they would have been in the same battle together. Dad's Army number was 4976755 and his POW number 4726 so they were very close on joining up and being captured. The book is called "First Contact, A History of the 8th Battalion The Sherwood Foresters 1939-1945" and is written by C Housley. You can find it on Amazon or write to the Regimental Museum in Nottingham.

    Dad was a Newark man and joined B Company, the Newark Company, until being transferred to 148 Brigade Staff as the Chief Clerk. He told me that being on Brigade Staff didn't matter a jot because he still ended up with a rifle defending the position at Rindheim!

    Regards

    Steve
     
  11. dadbilly

    dadbilly Junior Member

    Dad will be 'thrilled' to have been 'found.' His most vibrant memories are of the war and of when he and Weronika were on the work farm. He was never mistreated by the Germans and tells very interesting niche stories about a long walk with a Nazi soldier to get new spectacles. And another about how when they found out the farm cook--couldn't--...how the officers went to a nearby village and found a woman that could. He says he still misses some of her cooking. It would be worth the trip to Kirkby-in-Ashfield to have a long visit. I'm sure we'll/he'll be posting more. We spoke to him on the phone today shortly before bedtime and I think he is if not bewildered by it all, he's truly happy to be remembered. billydad's wife.

    oh p.s. can I please use the photos from the 8th on our FB tribute page to dad? It would be greatly appreciated. The gif we are using were Dad's closes pals on the work farm. it is fingered over lovingly often and shows the wear of familiarity. Thanks again for all your wonderful contributions.
     
  12. dadbilly

    dadbilly Junior Member

  13. Steve Foster

    Steve Foster Senior Member

    Hi, please use whatever photos you want. If you are thinking of visiting Tretten, I can give you lots of advice of where to go etc. It was an amazing experience to find the firing positions in the woods and to think that Dad and his mates were actually in them 70 years ago. We are looking forward to visiting Poland this year to see where Dad was held. Ask your Dad if he remembers Fred Foster, the Brigade Clerk.

    Regards

    Steve

    PS, I have replied to your Email
     
  14. dadbilly

    dadbilly Junior Member

    I'm pretty sure that dad made a trip back to both Tretten and Poland a couple of years ago. He's sons would be better at knowing where and when. I hope you like the pictures we've posted--wifey
     
  15. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

  16. Steve Foster

    Steve Foster Senior Member

    Although I visited Tretten in 2010, I was never too sure where dad actually fought during the battle. I knew he was the Brigade Clerk and he told me he was tasked with forming a rifle platoon from Brigade other ranks but that was it. By reading the section of the Brigade History about the battle and by casually looking through his pay book the other day, the two pieces of information are linked.

    The history states that the Brigade Personnel were sent to the forward position at Rindheim on 23 April under the signal officer, 2/Lt Butler, as all personnel were required on the front line. Looking at dad's pay book, 2/Lt Butler authorised a Field payment of £1 on 12 April 1940, which was just before they embarked on HMS Galatea for the passage to Norway. Butler was obviously dad's boss and dad would have been his platoon Sergeant.

    The hand written map of the Sherwood Forester's dispositions prior to the start of the battle shows dad's Brigade Staff platoon was directly in the centre of the position between Battalion HQ and 1 Platoon A Company positions. Their postion would have been one of the sangars I actually looked at and photographed during the visit (see earlier post with photos of the battle site).

    148 Bgde diary.jpg

    Sgt Foster paybook.jpg

    Maj Roberts Diary p28.jpg

    P1050244.JPG

    I guess that is as far as I am going to get, I should have asked him a lot of questions when I was a lad! I think I would have wanted more than a pound if I knew I was about to go into action!

    Steve
     
  17. BarbaraWT

    BarbaraWT Member

    Hi Steve,
    Do you know why he was issued with the pound at that time? A reimbursement perhaps?
    Regards
    Barbara
     
  18. Steve Foster

    Steve Foster Senior Member

    Hi Barbara,

    I think the Battalion would have been paid in cash as a one off prior to deploying. As dad was married, his pay would probably have gone straight to mum once they had gone overseas; because there was delay in embarking on the warships and the whole Battalion was camped in Dunfermline for a week, they probably received the cash for that week they were there. Probably A Sergeant's rate of pay was one pound a week.

    It's all a guess and pounds Sterling would have been no good to them in Norway!

    Steve
     
  19. BarbaraWT

    BarbaraWT Member

    That sounds the likely outcome. Thanks Steve.
    B
     
  20. Steve Foster

    Steve Foster Senior Member

    The last "Field pay" entry of £1 in Dad's Pay Book was on 16 April 1940 when he would have been embarked in HMS Galatea on passage to Norway. The authorising officer was Capt John Erskine Nicholson who was the Motor Transport Officer with 148 Brigade. He served in Norway but probably had a non job as all of the transport was at the bottom of the North Sea after the Ceder Bank, the merchant vessel carrying the MT was torpedoed. The pay book page and a letter from him to Dad written exactly seventeen years later are attached.

    Sgt Foster paybook 2.jpg

    Capt Nicholson was one of the few Foresters/148 Brigade personnel to be evacuated from Norway and according to his war record, which is on the attachment, he transferred to the REME and served in Africa and Italy.

    I found his letter the other day, and it was written in April 57 by which time he was a Lieutent Colonel and commanding the 8th Battalion Sherwood Foresters. Things go full circle. He was writing to congratulate Dad, so they must have been quite close during the war for him to have remembered; Army protocol had not been forgotten though as his form of address to Dad was not Dear Fred, or Dear Mr Foster but Dear Foster !!

    I expect Dad had that £1 with him in Norway and took it to Stalag XXA unless the Germans took it when captured.

    Steve
     

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