Discussion in '1940' started by morrisc8, Jan 30, 2016.
France, somewhere along the route of 29. Infanteriedivision
Regarding the photograph of the aircraft prop wreckage.Is there a number of some sort on the general wreckage of the aircraft in the background?
If it could be recognised it might lead to the aircraft being identified.
Unfortunately there´s no number
The original has 6 x 9 cm...would say even the inscription on the wooden cross was illegible
Grave 3 english flyers at the Lux. Belgian border at Abus (France)
A quick search on Google maps makes me suspect that with ABUS actually ATHUS could be meant. Then it could be 142 Sqn Fairey Battle L5578
Accident Fairey Battle Mk I L5578, 10 May 1940
One more from my collection. J Mills kia 28/5/40.
I wonder if this is the same casualty.
Driver James Mills with a CWGC recorded death of 21 May 1940.
Casualty Details | CWGC
Looking at No 142 Squadron's Battle L 5578. Bill Chorley references this aircraft as said with the whole crew lost.
F/0 F S Laws... Pilot
Sgt R F Miller....Observer
AC1 L M Langton...Wireless Operator/Air Gunner
One of two AASF squadrons based at Berry au Bac,the other being No 12 Squadron which was initially based there in September 1939 in the area of the Great War battlefield,north west of Reims.
The crash site at Rodange is in south-western Luxembourg. It lies next to the border with Belgium and across the town of Athus/France.
This coincides with the location description on the photo.
One from epay.
Here's an interesting one. A grave alongside a French soldier marked as 'Engl. Flieger' (English Flyer)...The name is clearly readable as John Tudor Webber.
The only John Tudor Webber that I can find though is a Driver RASC buried at Oye Plage.
Casualty Details | CWGC
He was though attached to 6 Anti-Aircraft Section. Did they misread something from his paperwork ?
I didn't see this one when you posted it, Keith. A Norway KOYLI casualty.
Casualty Details | CWGC
John Tudor Webber, 66643 as per CWGC, was reported in the April 1942 Army list of missing that was circulated to POW camps.
In the casualty lists:
List No. 284 Dated 17/8/40 Missing, Expeditionary Forces France, date not reported although the list contains many, many others with casualty dates of 10/5/40 - 16/6/40
List No. 589 Dated 13/8/41 KIA At Sea
List No. 668 Dated 13/11/41 KIA At Sea
Graves on the beach Dunkirk near the police station.
I've never heard of a Police station before along the beaches.
Could that be the plane number N6230 ?
Type: Bristol Blenheim Mk. IV
Serial number: N6230, XD-?
Pilot Officer James O. Power, RAF 40850, 139 Sqdn., age unknown, 14/05/1940, missing
Sergeant Douglas T. Stuart-Harris, RAF 580593, 139 Sqdn., age 20, 14/05/1940, missing
Aircraftman 1st Class Walter Parker, RAF 625250, 139 Sqdn., age unknown, 14/05/1940, missing
Airborne Plivot. Lost without trace. They are all commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial.
Unfortunately, there is very contradictory information on this:
According to Arnaud Gillet, the machine was shot down by flak. It is said that two pilots were seriously injured and parachuted out, but later died. After that, their trail disappeared. The third crew member is supposedly buried at Villiers, but instead two Fairey Battle pilots from 103 Sqn are buried there.....
Edit: And one unknown.
Again Gillet wrote the Fairey only had TWO crewmembers...?
Accident Fairey Battle Mk I L5516, 14 May 1940
Remilly-et-Aillecourt Communal Cemetery
The round parts on top of the grave are a broken Vickers G.O. Magazine
Fairey Battle (allegedly in Luxembourg) I interpret the date on the grave cross as "15.5.40"
The identification letter on the fuselage in picture 2 is certainly an "M", the other one(?) I cannot see clearly.
No details I'm afraid, looks like a Bren barrel stuck in the ground at the foot of the grave muzzle up
Looking up the squadron ID codes for the AASF Battle squadrons "PM" is for listed for 103 Squadron, none of the other AASF squadrons have a squadron code using the letter "M"
Luckily 103 Squadron has a website which deals with all their Fairey Battle aircraft lost during the Battle of France.
From the middle photo I would say that the photos Itdan has kindly posted are of Fairey Battle I L5516 flown by P/O Vernon A Cunningham with AC1 Joseph Johnson as Wireless Operator/rear gunner which was shot down by flak during an attack on the bridge at Remilly-Allicourt on 14 May 1940 (as opposed to 15 May 1940 on the temporary grave marker): 103 Squadron - Op Sedan bridges - 14/05/40 - P/O Vernon A Cunningham
If you compare the tail of the Battle shown in Itdan's centre photo and the one at the top of the page in the above link, I think that the damage to the mostly missing rudder looks exactly the same, with only the trim tab remaining.
P/O Cunningham was a New Zealander serving in the RAF. Ironically he was born in Wellington, close to where I live.
Cunningham and Johnson are buried in Remilly-et- Aillicourt Communal Cemetery. You can see a picture of their CWGC headstones and a bit more detail about P/O Cunningham by following this link:Vernon Allan Cunningham
This is the same aircraft as Itdan refers to in post #156 above.
Separate names with a comma.