Ask a simple question

Discussion in 'The Holocaust' started by Ron Goldstein, Apr 26, 2010.

  1. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    In recent years I have revelled in the amount of information that can be easily found on the internet.

    I have also discovered that one of the simplest ways of tapping in to this information is to go to GOOGLE and ask a simple question. Somehow, phrasing a question in this simplest of manners seems to supply the "key" words the computer needs to give an answer and then, once the numerous options are displayed, it is "simply" a question of picking what appears to be the right answer.

    Alright, I have over simplified this method of obtaining info on any subject but you get my meaning

    I went to GOOGLE and keyed in "How many Jews were killed in the Holocaust ?

    Amongst the 34,000 options were these two.

    Yahoo Answers March 2010

    In reply to "How many Jews were killed in the Holocaust ?There is no precise figure for the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. The figure commonly used is the six million established by the Nuremberg Tribunal in 1946 and repeated later by Adolf Eichmann, a senior SS official. Most research confirms that the number of victims was between five and six million. Early calculations range from 5.1 million (Professor Raul Hilberg) to 5.95 million (Jacob Leschinsky). More recent research, by Professor Yisrael Gutman and Dr. Robert Rozett in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, estimates the Jewish losses at 5.59-5.86 million, and a study headed by Dr. Wolfgang Benz presents a range from 5.29-6 million. The main sources for these statistics are comparisons of prewar censuses with postwar censuses and population estimates. Nazi documentation containing partial data on various deportations and murders is also used. We estimate that Yad Vashem currently has somewhat more than four million names of victims that are accessible.
    Raul Hilberg, in the third edition of his ground-breaking three-volume work, The Destruction of the European Jews, estimates that 5.1 million Jews died during the Holocaust. This figure includes "over 800,000" who died from "Ghettoization and general privation"; 1,400,000 who were killed in "Open-air shootings"; and "up to 2,900,000" who perished in camps. Hilberg estimates the death toll in Poland at "up to 3,000,000". Hilberg's numbers are generally considered to be a conservative estimate, as they typically include only those deaths for which some records are available, avoiding statistical adjustment. British historian Martin Gilbert used a similar approach in his "Atlas of the Holocaust", but arrived at a number of 5.75 million Jewish victims, since he estimated higher numbers of Jews killed in Russia and other locations.
    Lucy S. Dawidowicz used pre-war census figures to estimate that 5.934 million Jews died (see her figures here).
    One of the most authoritative German scholars of the Holocaust, Wolfgang Benz of the Technical University of Berlin, cites between 5.3 and 6.2 million Jews killed in Dimension des Völkermords (1991), while Yisrael Gutman and Robert Rozett estimate between 5.59 and 5.86 million Jewish victims in the Encyclopaedia of the Holocaust (1990).
    There were about 9.4 million Jews in the territories controlled directly or indirectly by the Nazis. (Some uncertainty arises from the lack of knowledge about how many Jews there were in the Soviet Union). The 6 million killed in the Holocaust thus represent about 64% of these Jews. Of Poland's 3.3 million Jews, over 90 percent were killed. The same proportion were killed in Latvia and Lithuania, but most of Estonia's Jews were evacuated in time. In Czechoslovakia, Greece, the Netherlands and Yugoslavia, over 70 percent were killed. More than 50 percent were killed in Belgium, Hungary and Romania. It is likely that a similar proportion were killed in Belarus and Ukraine, but these figures are less certain. Countries with notably lower proportions of deaths include Bulgaria, Denmark, France, Italy and Norway. Finally, of the 750,000 Jews in Germany and Austria in 1933, only about a quarter survived. Although many German Jews emigrated before 1939, the majority of these fled to Czechoslovakia, France or the Netherlands, from where they were later deported to their deaths.
    The number of people killed at the major extermination camps is estimated as follows:
    Auschwitz-Birkenau: 1.4 million; Belzec: 500,000; Chelmno: 152,000; Majdanek: 78,000 (figure under review); Maly Trostinets: 65,000; Sobibór: 250,000; and Treblinka: 870,000.
    This gives a total of over 3.3 million; of these, 90% are estimated to have been Jews. These seven camps alone thus accounted for half the total number of Jews killed in the entire Nazi Holocaust. Virtually the entire Jewish population of Poland died in these camps.
    In addition to those who died in the above extermination camps, at least half a million Jews died in other camps, including the major concentration camps in Germany. These were not extermination camps, but had large numbers of Jewish prisoners at various times, particularly in the last year of the war as the Nazis withdrew from Poland. About a million people died in these camps, and although the proportion of Jews is not known with certainty, it was estimated to be at least 50 percent. Another 800,000 to 1 million Jews were killed by the Einsatzgruppen in the occupied Soviet territories (an approximate figure, since the Einsatzgruppen killings were frequently undocumented). Many more died through execution or of disease and malnutrition in the ghettos of Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia and Hungary before they could be deported.
    For more information, see these links:
    Yad Vashem - The Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance Authority
    United States Holocaust Memorial Museum
    o 1 month ago

    Another one of the options I was offered was this one.
    The Mazal Library©

    If you have a genuine interest in what the Holocaust was all about I beg you to look at this site.

    Owen likes this.
  2. KellyR

    KellyR Banned

    Hello Ron, how are you? I really liked your thread, especially the title. I'm interested in Treblinka and I see in your post that 870,000 people were killed there. I too like the idea of asking simple questions. So may I ask you: Do you know how many graves those 870,000 people are buried in? If your answer is yes, would you please share that information with me? (I couldn't find the information in the links that you provided.)

    Thanks Ron. ttyl
  3. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

  4. KellyR

    KellyR Banned

    Thanks for your input dbf.

    Since you have taken the time and effort to post on this thread, may I ask you the same questions about Treblinka that I asked Ron?

    Do you know how many graves those 870,000 people are buried in? (A simple Yes or No will do.)

    If your answer is yes, would you please share that information with me?

    Thanks again dbf.
  5. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    I have an answer for you, pal, and I will keep it simple enough for you to grasp.


    Now, I have simple yes or no question for you.

    Does it matter?

    Study on it, yes or no and nothing else.
  6. ritsonvaljos

    ritsonvaljos Senior Member

    When thousands of bodies have been cremated there is not much left left to bury in any sort of a grave. For these, it would not therefore be possible to do a straightforward exhumation and a statistical count of numbers by this means of investigation alone.

    Such was the simple brutality of what happened at many of these Nazi concentration camps during WW2.
    Za Rodinu likes this.
  7. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Despite the literal and formulaic lines of enquiry, it surely didn't matter to ‘KellyR’ where any of the victims’ physical remains might now lie after all these decades, or indeed how and why they were killed. It must be a curiously cold way to go through life, with only that smugness to comfort them when they're alone with their thoughts.

    Anyway, those who challenge the numbers are at odds with their own ideological hero who certainly would’ve wanted more, not less. They actually ally themselves more with the squirming, jail dodging, blame shifting, self-preserving war crime defendants who lied, and continue to lie about their roles to an unbelieving majority. They all think they’re being crafty, but in actual fact they’re only revealing to us what scares them the most.
    Za Rodinu and ritsonvaljos like this.
  8. ritsonvaljos

    ritsonvaljos Senior Member

    A well judged assessment!
  9. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    A single grave, how many bodies? I don't know, only God and surely Satan will.

    The neat and tidy principle did not apply there.
    ritsonvaljos likes this.

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