Post Traumatic Stress

Discussion in 'Veteran Accounts' started by Trincomalee, Oct 3, 2007.

  1. Formerjughead

    Formerjughead Senior Member

    So I return to PTS. I can understand being struck down by this dreadful event, if you had been in continuous action under the most awful conditions, with men being killed and horribly wounded around you, for months on end. I can understand men going "Bomb happy" afetr taking part in some violent and horrific close quarters action.

    I wouldn't consider PTS or PTSD being "Bomb Happy" or "Battle Exhaustion". Post Traumatic Stress is generally a result of repressing fear and taking care of the task at hand. It becomes a disorder when left unaddressed once removed from the violence or trauma; hours, days, weeks, months and years later.

    In my case the trigger was allowing a friend to go first, during a cell extraction, so he could gain experience. Although I was right behind him I was unable to prevent him from being violently slashed (46 stitches and staples to close his deltoid). The very next cell extraction I was stabbed in the left thigh and right calf with a 14 inch piece of straightened cyclone fencing that had been sharpened to a point.

    A few months later I left the Department of Corrections to pursue other venues in Law Enforcement. I never thought there was anything wrong even though I was consumed by the thought of the events that night. I was unable to sleep and when I did sleep my dreams consisted of replaying the events of those two extractions or many of the other events which occurred during my time working in the prison system.

    But I must be honest. I fail to see that one or two iinstances of violence can bring on PTS.... I just cannot see it.

    It's not necessarily violence per se, it's the trauma (psychological and physical) the violence creates and the way it is dealt with afterward. Soldiers, Police and Fireman have an expectation of being exposed to such violent (traumatic) events and they do so willingly. Most "civilian" types do not and therefore their threshold is lower and can easily be affected by one event. Again it is not the event; it's the ability to process the event and put it away in a healthy fashion.

    There are people, due to the way they were raised that are more prone to the adverse affects of PTS and are more likely to develop PTSD. Children of a parent who suffered with PTSD, or were in an abusive, alcoholic or other type of non stable home environment are especially susceptible. The reason is that most of the household habits of communication and social interaction, which are things we learn from our parents while being raised, are tainted and unhealthy. The kicker is that most of these same habits are also the things that make you effective in traumatic events or attract us to protect others.

    I personally have learned to deal with my "stuff" and it is a continuing journey. While there are those that use the moniker of PTS and PTSD as a crutch, and seek compensation or sympathy, most pick up and move on as I have done. Fortunately I had someone, my wife, who not only bore the brunt of my issues she also had the insight to see there was something not right.

    This post has kind of rambled on and I apologize for the length. I had no intention of sharing so much.

    Brad
     
  2. Erich

    Erich Senior Member

    Gents since working with many veterans of my time period - Nam, WW 2, Korea, and now the mid-east in droves, also firemen, policemen in our area we have come through the field knowing full well that early PTSD symptoms can come as early as childhood through whatever stress and trauma may have occurred then pushed to the maximum limit(s) if you will through combat experience. for so many years we have always thought that PTSD was something you experienced in the war torn field and brought home with you..............NOT so ! am just adding two centos onto this as Brad brought this to my attention. Lets remember that we are not all of the same genes that physicality and personality are all different. As Brian points out some came away from the horrors and were able to talk freely of what they went through, others not so kept within and re-lived daily

    v/r E ~
     
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  3. spider

    spider Very Senior Member

    PTS is a pale imitation of real battle exhaustion. And rather like the "Slipped Disc" syndrome, only appeared in the latter half of the century. A slipped disc or PTS was not known in my younger days It was not heard of because then it did not exist.

    Seriously....These are relatively modern maladies...Surely? We lived quite well when we did not have them. Or better description...! When they were undiscovered
    Sapper

    I can only assume you are taking the piss.

    Have a read of this publication, anyhow there are also some good pictures in it.

    Spider
     

    Attached Files:

  4. canuck

    canuck Token Colonial Patron

    My closest association with this disability is a family friend who happened to work in the financial services industry in the World Trade Center. His memory stops after having reached the lobby of Tower 2 on the morning of September 11th, 2001. He regained consciousness in hospital several days later and his injuries caused him to remain there for four months. All of his co-workers perished.
    As of today, he has been unable to return to work.
    Some experiences are difficult to overcome.
     
  5. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    I am certainly not taking anything ..... It is true. in our younger days PTS was not unknown. it may have existed, but no one knew about it.
    Sapper
     
  6. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Stiff upper lip and all that. Take it in the chin. No psychologists, and psychiatrics were for crazy people only.
     
  7. spider

    spider Very Senior Member

    I am certainly not taking anything ..... It is true. in our younger days PTS was not unknown. it may have existed, but no one knew about it.
    Sapper

    And no one knew about it?

    Spider

    [FONT=&quot]The History of Post-traumatic Stress Disorder [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Dr Ruwan M Jayatunge M.D. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

    [/FONT][FONT=&quot](January 02, Colombo, Sri Lanka Guardian) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]PTSD is a relatively newly defined disorder with an old history and historical medical literature reveal clinical symptoms similar to post traumatic stress disorder dating back to the Egyptian civilization. In 1900 BC, an Egyptian physician eloquently described hysterical reactions of a patient after traumatic experience. These reports became one of the first medical textbooks ever when published in 1990 B.C. (Figley, C.R., 1993).

    War Trauma described in Mahabharata

    Mahabharata, an epic tale in Indian mythology originally written by Sage Ved Vyas in Sanskrut. Mahabharata illustrates the Great War of Mahabharat between the Pandavas and the Kauravas happened in 3139 BC. Although many believed, that Mahabharata was a fable the archeological discovery of the ancient city of Dwaraka, situated on the extreme West Coast of Indian territory by Dr. S.B. Rao, Emeritus Scientist of the National Institute of Oceanography provided credence to the legend of Krishna and the Mahabharata war. The great epic Mahabharata describes vivid combat stress reactions exhibited by the ancient worriers.

    The horrendous combat events described in Mahabharata (translated by Dr P.V Vartak)

    On the 14th day of the Mahabharat War, i.e., on 30th October a similar phenomenon took place. Due to the October heat enhanced with the heat of the fire-weapons liberally used in the War, the ground became so hot that the layers of air near it were rarefied while the layers at the top were denser. Therefore the sun above the horizon ws reflected producing its image beneath. The Sun's disc which was flattened into an ellipse by a general refraction was also joined to the brilliant streak of reflected image. The last tip of the Sun disppeared not below the true horizon, but some distance above it at the false hor- izon. Looking at it, Jayadratha came out and was killed. By that time, the same appeared on the true horizon. Naturally there was no refrac- tion because the light rays came parallel to the ground. This revisu- alized the Sun at the true horizon. Then the sun actually set, but the refraction projected the image above the horizon. The sun was thus visible for a short time, which then set again.

    Combat Related PTSD poetically described by Homer

    The Greek epic poet Homer was an artistically gifted oral poet who had the capacity to inspire human nature in dramatic terms. Homer's great epic Iliad, which was composed may be in 730 BC narrates a series of harrowing experiences of battle stresses that were experienced by the ancient Hellenic combatants. In depicting the world of the warriors in the Iliad, Homer pays special attention to the objects of war and human relations in extreme situations.

    Iliad offers a glimpse of battle stress and human capacity to resist such trauma. Despite the beautiful objects and environments for their aesthetic value, Iliad expresses the ironies of war. Homer recounts the horrors of war using various expressions such as smell of blood and sweat of slaughter and earth soaked in blood etc. Hence, Homer articulates that there is no glory in the slaughter.

    Iliad may be the most complete single metaphor for the deadly perils of warfare. Homer tells how the warriors in motion on the battlefield and their obsession of terror that creates a destructive enterprise of war. Homer analytically describes the rage of Achilles the warrior thus.

    Sing me, goddess, of the anger
    of Achilles, son of Peleus,
    bane that brought to the Achaeans
    countless woes, and hurled to Hades
    countless mighty hero spirits,
    left to dogs and birds their carrion,
    and the will of Zeus accomplished.
    Sing from when they first made quarrel,
    Agamemnon, king of peoples,
    and the noble-born Achilles. (Translation by John Porter)

    Achilles was utterly overwhelmed with grief when he heard the death of his friend Patroklos. Patroklos went to the battlefield wearing Achilles’s armor to fight the Trojan prince Hector. Patroklos was killed in the fight. His body was mutilated and put to vultures to eat. Iliad describes Achilles’s survival guilt as an outcry.

    I would die here and now, in that I could not save my comrade. He has fallen far from home, and in his hour of need, my hand was not there to help him. What is there for me? Return to my own land I shall not, and I have brought no saving neither to Patroklos nor to my other comrades of whom so many have been slain by mighty Hektor; I stay here by my ships a bootless burden upon the earth. Iliad 18.97

    Battle scenes and human suffering occupy much of the Iliad. When exposed to combat atmosphere soldiers have feelings that become more intense and unpredictable. They may include responses that are re-awakened or amplified. Homer proficiently articulates such responses. In Iliad, some combatants go in to extreme confusion and experience the feelings of insecurity. Their reactions are similar to modern-day combat related PTSD.

    The Iliad epitomizes another tragedy of war. The agony of war widows which roofed with physical and mental trauma. The page of Iliad echoes the woe and afflict of the Trojan women. Homer expounds their snivel and helplessness comprehensively. Trojan women have become the ultimate symbol of a man made disaster.

    Homer's Iliad is a universal affirmation of combat trauma and poetically recites how human psyche reacts to extreme situations. Based on its artistic qualities and deep analysis of human relations in a time of war, Iliad represents a great epic and a human melodrama.

    PTSD in Buddhist Jathaka Stories

    According to archaeological and literary evidence the Jataka stories were compiled in the period, the 3rd Century B.C. to the 5th Century A.D. The Khuddaka Nikaya contains 550 stories the Buddha told of his previous lifetimes as an aspiring Bodhisatta. According to Professor Rhys Davids Jataka stories are one of the oldest fables. The Jataka stories deeply analyse the human mind. It contains a profound psychological content. The renowned Sri Lankan writer Martin Wickramasinghe once said Psychoanalysis was not initiated by Freud but by the Jataka storyteller.

    In the Jataka stories there are numerous characters who have displayed hysteria type of reactions. For instance in the Maranabheruka Jathaka one monk shows anxiety based reactions that is similar to modern day PTSD. This monk displays extreme fear, hyper-arousal, avoidance, frightful mental pictures (flashbacks?) and emotional anesthesia.

    Shakespearian Work and PTSD

    The eminent English poet and playwright William Shakespeare created many characters that appear to be afflicted by psychological and psychiatric disorders. Shakespeare had an exclusive ability to grasp the dynamics of the human mind and fathom the dysfunctions of the human psyche. Indeed Shakespeare was very comprehensible in his descriptions of various psychological and psychiatric symptoms. Shakespeare’s influence on psychopathology was immeasurable. Many of Shakespeare’s lead characters seem to be having mental disorders and even psychoses.

    Shakespeare’s play of Macbeth probably written sometime between 1603 and 1607 reveals a misfortune filled with guilt, emotional overwhelming, nightmares, hallucinations, disturbing reminiscences. Macbeth was a Scottish Army General who wanted to rise to nobility and to become the king of Scotland. To fulfill his ambition he was pushed to kill the king Duncan by his ambitious wife. Macbeth murders his king Duncan while Duncan is a guest at their castle. After the murder, Macbeth and his wife become emotionally unstable. Lady Macbeth she sleepwalks (a form of dissociation that is evident in trauma) She continuously washes and wrings her hands in an attempt to make it clean (OCD type of behavior that could be co morbid with PTSD). Her nights were full of disturbances and she becomes hypervigilant. Following distressing mental condition, Lady Macbeth commits suicide.

    Samuel Pepys’s Diary describes PTSD reactions after the Great Fire

    Samuel Pepys a Member of the Parliament kept a detailed private diary described the aftermath of the Great Fire of London, which occurred in 1666. Samuel Pepys vividly wrote about the emotional reactions of the survivors who manifested nightmares and intrusive thoughts about the calamity.

    Pepys Diary Entry, September 2 1666

    Some of our maids sitting up late last night to get things ready against our feast today, Jane called up about three in the morning, to tell us of a great fire they saw in the City. So I rose, and slipped on my night-gown and went to her window, and thought it to be on the back side of Mark Lane at the farthest; but, being unused to such fires as followed, I thought it far enough off, and so went to bed again, and to sleep. . . . By and by Jane comes and tells me that she hears that above 300 houses have been burned down tonight by the fire we saw, and that it is now burning down all Fish Street, by London Bridge. So I made myself ready presently, and walked to the Tower; and there got up upon one of the high places, . . .and there I did see the houses at the end of the bridge all on fire, and an infinite great fire on this and the other side . . . of the bridge. . . .

    So down [I went], with my heart full of trouble, to the Lieutenant of the Tower, who tells me that it began this morning in the King's baker's house in Pudding Lane, and that it hath burned St. Magnus's Church and most part of Fish Street already. So I rode down to the waterside, . . . and there saw a lamentable fire. . . . Everybody endeavouring to remove their goods, and flinging into the river or bringing them into lighters that lay off; poor people staying in their houses as long as till the very fire touched them, and then running into boats, or clambering from one pair of stairs by the waterside to another. And among other things, the poor pigeons, I perceive, were loth to leave their houses, but hovered about the windows and balconies, till they some of them burned their wings and fell down.

    Having stayed, and in an hour's time seen the fire rage every way, and nobody to my sight endeavouring to quench it, . . . I [went next] to Whitehall (with a gentleman with me, who desired to go off from the Tower to see the fire in my boat); and there up to the King's closet in the Chapel, where people came about me, and I did give them an account [that]dismayed them all, and the word was carried into the King. so I was called for, and did tell the King and Duke of York what I saw; and that unless His Majesty did command houses to be pulled down, nothing could stop the fire. They seemed much troubled, and the King commanded me to go to my Lord Mayor from him, and command him to spare no houses. . . .

    Although Samuel Pepys survived the Great Fire of London without any physical damage, his emotions were inundated. He wrote about his fires, sleep disturbances, fear feelings, intrusive memories and that haunted him for a long time.

    PTSD victims of Russo Turkish War

    During 1676 to 1681 series of military conflicts occurred between Russian and Ottoman Empires. Professor V.I Buganov – a renowned Soviet Historian described unusual events that occurred during the war between the Turkish troops and the forces of the Peter the Great. According to Baranov’s historical recollections, some soldiers lost their voices (became aphonic as a result of hysteria type dissociative reaction). Some manifested fear feelings and became insane (stress related behavior following Acute Stress Disorder?).

    Railway Hysteria

    In 1800, a condition called Railway Hysteria / Railway Spine that bore a remarkable resemblance to modern day PTSD. The sufferers of Railway Hysteria / Railway Spine showed anxiety and somatoform symptoms after facing catastrophic railway accidents. Railway spine was a nineteenth-century diagnosis for the post-traumatic symptoms. A large numbers of casualties reported on Britain's Victorian railways between the 1840s and the 1860s. The Medical experts regarded 'Railway as a condition produced by a jolted and shaken spinal cord to one of traumatically-induced mental and nervous collapse fraught with implications of hysteria, neurasthenia and degeneration.

    Neurasthenia

    In 1869, the neurologist George Beard called a group of symptoms neurasthenia that was appeared in Beard's Neurasthenia As a Cause of Inebriety (1879) characterized by chronic fatigue and weakness, loss of memory, and generalized aches and pains, formerly thought to result from exhaustion of the nervous system.

    Soldier’s Heart

    In 1876 US Civil War Physician Dr Mandez Da Costa introduced the term Soldier’s Heart which illustrated the physical and emotional symptoms displayed by the Civil War veterans. These symptoms included startle responses, hyper vigilance, dyspnea, palpitation, chest pain, fatigue, faintness and heart arrhythmias. Soldiers Heart or Da Costa's syndrome is considered the manifestation of an anxiety disorder and treatment is primarily behavioral, involving modifications to lifestyle and daily exertion.

    Pierre Janet

    In 1889, Pierre Janet published L''Automatisme Psychologique, his first work to deal with how the mind processes traumatic experiences. Pierre Janet coined the word ‘dissociation and explained the effects of dissociation of the traumatic memories and their return as fragmentary reliving experiences

    Effort Syndrome

    Effort Syndrome was introduced in 1900. This condition was characterized by chest pain; dizziness; fatigue; palpitations; cold, moist hands; and sighing respiration. The condition is often associated with soldiers in combat but occurs also in other individuals. The pain often mimics angina pectoris but is more closely connected to anxiety states and occurs after rather than during exercise.

    Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (introduced in 1900)

    Chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) is a complicated disorder characterized by extreme fatigue that may worsen with physical or mental activity, but doesn't improve with rest. Although there are many theories about what causes this condition — ranging from viral infections to psychological stress.

    Jean-Martin Charcot

    In 1901 the Parisian clinical neurologist Jean-Martin Charcot better known as "the founder of modern neurology” described traumatic memories as parasites of the mind. He formulated a comprehensive, neurogenic model of ‘the great neurosis’. For Charcot, hysteria was strictly a dysfunction of the central nervous system. In Charcot's view, traumatic hysteria and male hysteria were identical. Charcot acknowledged the relevance of psychological traumas, dissociated from the patient's consciousness, in determining the nature of its symptoms. Jean-Martin Charcot's views immensely affected Sigmund Freud's early theory of hysteria and the notion of psychical trauma.

    Sigmund Freud

    Sigmund Freud used the term Traumatic Neurosis that resembles the present day PTSD. The term traumatic neurosis designates a psycho-pathological state characterized by various disturbances arising soon or long after an intense emotional shock. Freud specifically wrote about effects of traumatic memories and traumatic shock.

    In Freud's words, "The symptomatic picture presented by traumatic neurosis approaches that of hysteria in the wealth of its similar motor symptoms, but surpasses it as a rule in its strongly marked signs of subjective ailment . . . , as well as in the evidence it gives of a far more general enfeeblement and disturbance of the mental capacities" (1920g, p. 12).

    Freud’s understanding of trauma was well represented in his works mainly in Mourning & Melancholia (1917), Beyond the Pleasure Principle (1920), and Symptoms, Inhibitions & Anxiety (1926). Freud assumed that the negative emotional energy associated with traumatic memories unconsciously converted into the somatic manifestations of hysteria. Freud’s lectures in 1917–1918 eloquently described the broad clinical picture of PTSD.

    In one of his famous lectures- Fixation upon trauma / the unconscious which was conducted in America Freud states thus…..

    The closest analogy to this behavior in our nervous patients is provided by the forms of illness recently made so common by the war – the so-called traumatic neurosis. Of courses, similar cases have occurred before the war, after railway accidents and other terrifying experiences involving danger to life. The traumatic neurosis are not fundamentally the same as those which occur spontaneously…..

    ….. The traumatic neurosis demonstrates very clearly that a fixation to the moment of the traumatic occurrence lies at their root. These patients regularly produce the traumatic situation in their dreams, in case showing attacks of a hysterical type in which analysis is possible; it appears that the attack constitutes a complete reproduction of this situation. It is as though these persons had not yet been able to deal adequately with the situation, as if this task were still actually before them unaccomplished.

    In 1910 Freud stated that hysterical patients suffer from intrusive reminiscences. There are many suggestive evidence to prove that Sigmund Freud knew the spacious clinical picture of PTSD.

    Shell shock

    By 1918, British Military Doctors identified a group of symptoms included tiredness, irritability, giddiness, lack of concentration and headaches among the soldiers who fought in the World War one. A British Pathologist Col Fredrick Mott coined the term Shell Shock and he considered shell shock as an organic condition produced by miniature hemorrhages of the brain. Between 1914 and 1918, the British Army identified 80,000 men as suffering from shell shock. Shell shock was generally seen as a sign of emotional weakness or cowardice.

    Wilfred Owen was a Captain of the British Army and witnessed the atrocities of WW 1 first hand. He wrote his famous anti-war poem "Dulce et Decorum Est" while receiving treatment for shell shock in Craiglockart.

    Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
    Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
    Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
    And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
    Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
    But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
    Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
    Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.

    Gas! Gas! Quick, boys! – An ecstasy of fumbling,
    Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
    But someone still was yelling out and stumbling,
    And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime . . .
    Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
    As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
    In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
    He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

    Combat Fatigue

    The World War 2 was the global military conflict, which began in 1939, and 110 million persons were mobilized for military services. In 1939, the term Combat Fatigue was introduced to describe the combat trauma reactions that occurred during the WW2. Combat Fatigue was characterized by hypersensitivity to stimuli such as noises, movements, and light accompanied by overactive responses that include involuntary defensive jerking or jumping, easy irritability progressing even to acts of violence, and sleep disturbances including battle dreams, nightmares, and inability to fall asleep.

    Following a battle in WWII, 17% were afflicted with acute PTSD. A longitudinal study of Harvard University alumni found 56% of World War II veterans who experienced heavy combat were chronically ill or dead by age 65 (Lee, Vaillant, Torrey & Elder, 1995).

    1952 DSM 1 – Neurotic Reaction (Stress Response Syndrome)

    The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM 1) was published in 1952 by the American Psychiatric Association and provided new diagnostic criteria for Neurotic Reaction (Stress Response Syndrome).

    1968 DSM 2 Transient Situational Disturbance

    Transient Situational Disturbance defined as a form of maladaptive reactions to identifiable psychosocial stressors occurring within a short time after onset of the stressor. They are manifested by either impairment in social or occupational functioning or by symptoms (depression, anxiety, etc.) that are in excess of a normal and expected reaction to the stressor.

    1980 DSM 3 PTSD

    In 1980, the American Psychiatric Association added PTSD to the third edition of its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-III) nosologic classification scheme. In its initial DSM-III formulation, a traumatic event was conceptualized as a catastrophic stressor that was outside the range of usual human experience.

    In 1993 WHO recognizes PTSD as a Separate Diagnostic Entity

    The International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems 10th Revision (ICD-10) is a coding of diseases and signs, symptoms, abnormal findings, complaints, social circumstances and external causes of injury or diseases, as classified by the World Health Organization (WHO).ICD-10 was endorsed by the Forty-third World Health Assembly in May 1990 and came into use in WHO Member States. The ICD is the international standard diagnostic classification for all general epidemiological, many health management purposes and clinical use.

    1994 DSM 4

    The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders- Fourth Edition (American Psychiatric Association, 1994) defines PTSD as a constellation of symptoms and behaviors that includes three core clusters. Re-experience the trauma in the form of intrusive thoughts, dreams and images, avoidance of thoughts or reminders of the trauma, together with emotional numbing and withdrawal and signs of increased central and autonomic arousal. [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Saturday, January 2, 2010[/FONT]
     
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  8. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Just as an example of h0w battle exhaustion can cause the most bizarre behaviour. One man I knew ran around the orchard we were in, with his commando knife, trying to kill his own mates. He was rugby tackled, tied up, and put in a foxhole...It happened on the Goodwood offensive, and we were under concentrated fire at the time. I think that was at Bannerville/Sannerville????

    I recall it as my mate the late Jock Mathers and myself were unloading boxes of jelly and putting them in hole, had it been hit the whole area would have been razed

    That has little to do with PTS has it?
    Sapper
     
  9. Capt Bill

    Capt Bill wanderin off at a tangent

    Just as an example of h0w battle exhaustion can cause the most bizarre behaviour. One man I knew ran around the orchard we were in, with his commando knife, trying to kill his own mates. He was rugby tackled, tied up, and put in a foxhole...It happened on the Goodwood offensive, and we were under concentrated fire at the time. I think that was at Bannerville/Sannerville????

    I recall it as my mate the late Jock Mathers and myself were unloading boxes of jelly and putting them in hole, had it been hit the whole area would have been razed

    That has little to do with PTS has it?
    Sapper

    Battle exhaustion is an immediate effect of prolonged exposure to the violence of conflict

    PTSD is the delayed effects of exposure to the violence - it may represent itself in weeks, months or years down the line. It will manifest itself in changes in habit s and personalities - people change dramatically after all the internalisation of the remorse, guilt, fear and anger of having survived when others did not

    BE and PTSD are two seperate conditions but there is a common link
     
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  10. spider

    spider Very Senior Member

    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]I respectfully bow out of this topic, you can’t inform the unenlightened.

    Spider
     
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  11. Capt Bill

    Capt Bill wanderin off at a tangent

    I respectfully bow out of this topic, you can’t inform the unenlightened.

    Spider

    :banghead: head bang wall, carry on
     
  12. canuck

    canuck Token Colonial Patron

  13. Zeppman

    Zeppman Member

    A traumatic event will reveal itself somehow. I suffered 18% 3rd degree burns in 2002. The pain was incredible and I suffered for 3 weeks in hospital as a result. I had several nightmares over 2 months afterwards and woke up on each occasion in a panic. I was never diagnosed (I didn't seek an opinion) with anything like PTSD but it shows you you will be affected somehow. I consider myself to have a strong constitution. Just back from the Congo and now accepted to work on a project in Afghanistan.
     
  14. Formerjughead

    Formerjughead Senior Member

    [FONT=&quot]1994 DSM 4[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders- Fourth Edition (American Psychiatric Association, 1994) defines PTSD as a constellation of symptoms and behaviors that includes three core clusters. Re-experience the trauma in the form of intrusive thoughts, dreams and images, avoidance of thoughts or reminders of the trauma, together with emotional numbing and withdrawal and signs of increased central and autonomic arousal. [/FONT]


    [FONT=&quot]Saturday, January 2, 2010[/FONT]

    That right there is the crux of the issue. Normally when someone experiences something they are uncomfortable with they feel they can share the experience with a spouse or familiy member without judgment. Such is not the case with PTSD, in most cases, as those who suffer or experieince it feel shame.

    People look at the victims of a traumatic event and can easily recognize scars or lacking body parts and can therefore empathyse with the person. More often those of us who are dealing with PTSD have no outward physical markers and are often assumed to be assh*les for one reason or the other.

    For some members to tell me that they have been through a traumatic event and suffered no ill or longterm effects is pure hogwash; making such claims is not only deceptive to yourself it is insulting to everyone else.

    A traumatic event will reveal itself somehow. I suffered 18% 3rd degree burns in 2002. The pain was incredible and I suffered for 3 weeks in hospital as a result. I had several nightmares over 2 months afterwards and woke up on each occasion in a panic. I was never diagnosed (I didn't seek an opinion) with anything like PTSD but it shows you you will be affected somehow. I consider myself to have a strong constitution. Just back from the Congo and now accepted to work on a project in Afghanistan.

    The night mares are part of the Post Traumatic process and can last for weeks, months or years with lessening frequency. A person can go for quite a while and experience none of the effects of PTSD; but, there is a time when something will bring the experience back (trigger). Failing to recognise such events is not good. Personally I rarely if ever dream and my wife knows not to touch me while I sleep or try and wake me if I am having a bad dream. My wife recognizes what triggers I have and does a very good job of of redirecting my attention when the need arises.

    I am ging to assume that you have some things in everyday life that you have learned to avoid or that cause you to re-experience your trauma and the emotions associated with it. The moral of my post is that seeking help is not a bad thing and I encourage anyone who feels it necessary should find a counselor and get some help, I certainly did and I am glad I did.
     
  15. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Hang on my old fruit !
    I recognise that there are those that suffer a great deal ...And genuinely....

    I saw some violent and savage action.. Was wounded twice. Once with an S mine. I still carry a bit around still buried in my skull. I was wounded again in Holland with a fractured spine, lost me left knee. My left leg smashed to little bits, and nearly every bone in my body cracked.... I spent months in a complete body cast from head to toes ...All of me. Iys called a "Spica"

    I never suffered PTS !..... Indeed.... if anything I am likely to give someone else PTS
    Huge Grin :):):):):)
    Sapper
     
  16. Formerjughead

    Formerjughead Senior Member

    Hang on my old fruit !
    I recognise that there are those that suffer a great deal ...And genuinely....

    I saw some violent and savage action.. Was wounded twice. Once with an S mine. I still carry a bit around still buried in my skull. I was wounded again in Holland with a fractured spine, lost me left knee. My left leg smashed to little bits, and nearly every bone in my body cracked.... I spent months in a complete body cast from head to toes ...All of me. Iys called a "Spica"

    I never suffered PTS !..... Indeed.... if anything I am likely to give someone else PTS
    Huge Grin :):):):):)
    Sapper

    Sapper, it is obvious that there are two discussions going on in this thread; the one that is actually taking place and the one you perceive.

    For you to tell me that you have not experienced night mares, bad dreams, wandering thoughts, remorse or regret is silly.

    Most cases of PTSD do not result in the person being reduced to a whimpering ball of humanity. The opposite is actually more precise.

    There is little doubt that you have dealt with things very well and have assimilated things into your daily life. I beleive that your sharing of your experiences through this forum and WW2F have been a mechanism for you to accept your experience and put it into context. I do not believe for one instant that you have visited one of your former battlefields and did not experience any type of emotional response.

    Combat Fatigue and Battle Exhaustion are two entirely different creatures than PTSD.

    Hollywood and Pinewood Studios take great pleasure in the portrayel of PTSD as grounds for being ostricized. Case in point the typical yarn of the War vet returning home and going to live in the woods because he feels disenfranchised (think Rambo or Robert Redford in the Mountain Men or Kevin Costner in Dances With Wolves). While those are extreme examples of PTSD there are others that are more within the norm: Mel Gibson in The Patriot, Frank Sinatra in Manchurian Candidate as well as the entire cast of "The Best Years Of Our Lives".

    Now I made a decision quite a few years ago, because of the preconcieved opinion of former Marines. Most people associate former Marines with the likes of Lee Harvey Oswald and Charles Whitman while very few recognize John Glenn or Walter Cunningham as also being Marines. So I came to the conclusion that I could either settle for being a tower sniper or strive to be an astronaut. I still haven't heard back from NASA :D.
     
  17. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Hang on again! let me make it quite plain.... I have never suffered PTS at any time. I have never had nightmares about those times. At the same time, I have never been back to visit my fallen comrades. I am not up to travelling..... far too banged about
    Very severely war disabled. let me say again out loud. NEVER HAD PTS.

    Never had sleepless nights, never had flashbacks.. Or any7thing like it... End of story !
    I do not write about the war for any other reason, than an old Gent once told me "You have a duty to recall those times Brian. For when you are gone you take it all with you" He also said "what you can contribute will keep the memory of the lost young men alive"

    Not to salve my feelings...... Like I said... I am more likely to give others PTS than suffer it myself...NEVER HAD PTS
    Sapper
     
    KOYLI1944 likes this.
  18. Zeppman

    Zeppman Member

    Think I can believe Sapper would give any guy PTS. That aside my Uncle started seeing a counsellor in the late 1990s after the big 50th end of war Anniversaries, he was in Burma. He's passed on now but no one is too old for it to come and bite you on the arse.
     
  19. A-58

    A-58 Not so senior Member

    Think I can believe Sapper would give any guy PTS. That aside my Uncle started seeing a counsellor in the late 1990s after the big 50th end of war Anniversaries, he was in Burma. He's passed on now but no one is too old for it to come and bite you on the arse.
    The same with my dad. He got drafted into the Army in 1952, the same week he turned 18 and got shipped to Korea. Spent his time there freezing and fighting for almost two years before earning his points to come home, about 3 months before his 20th birthday. He never made mention of any problems until just a few years ago. Now he says he has horrible dreams every night about his combat actions, and of his friends who were KIA there. My mom told me that he told her about having conversations with some of his buddies in his nightmares that were KIA, and that he remembers them the way they looked back then, as clear and real as if they were in Korea during the war. After these nightly episodes, he wakes up crying. He was sent to a VA counselor to talk about these problems, but he says nothing has changed at all.

    Maybe he suffered from PTSD all along, but was able to conceal and deal with it. After his quadruple bypass surgery about 10 years ago, he recovered physically to a certain point and plateaued out. Not long afterwards his recurring nightmares started. He used to be an avid war movie enthusiest, but now he has lost all interest in watching any type of war movie as well. Mom says it makes his nightmares worse. It's hard to see someone who used to be as hard as a rock start to crumble like chalk, mentally and physically.

    And my old man was not a softie by any stretch of the description. He was tough as a mule and mean as a snake and could swear and cuss to the point of making a drill sergeant blush.
     
  20. Formerjughead

    Formerjughead Senior Member

    Hang on again! let me make it quite plain.... I have never suffered PTS at any time. I have never had nightmares about those times. At the same time, I have never been back to visit my fallen comrades. I am not up to travelling..... far too banged about
    Very severely war disabled. let me say again out loud. NEVER HAD PTS.

    Never had sleepless nights, never had flashbacks.. Or any7thing like it... End of story !
    I do not write about the war for any other reason, than an old Gent once told me "You have a duty to recall those times Brian. For when you are gone you take it all with you" He also said "what you can contribute will keep the memory of the lost young men alive"

    Not to salve my feelings...... Like I said... I am more likely to give others PTS than suffer it myself...NEVER HAD PTS
    Sapper

    Well good for you as you are the only Veteran I have met who has not been visited by their past. You are indeed the exception to the rule.

    On the other hand I am sure being "banged up" has been cathartic enough in it's own rite and you don't need the extra burden. On the other hand it could also be the pain meds dulling the feeling of the memories. In anycase you are a lucky individual. Hopefully if you gain anything from this discussion you will come to a better understanding of what others go through and develop an appreciation for their perspective.
     

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