WW2 resulted in a Cold War

Discussion in 'The Eastern Front' started by T-34, Apr 22, 2006.

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  1. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    I'm fed up with this thread.
    I thought T34 had more to offer than just pro-commie rantings.
    I would like to know more about his Grandad's service in WW2 but alas No.
    Jimbo you bite and don't let go.

    I'm off now to read a Divisional History 1944-45. Byee.

    Fare thee well Owen. If this continues I shall have to instigate a "Hello/Goodbye" thread. Come on T34! Give us some of your granddad's service history! Please!
     
  2. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    But if the threat of war disturbs the sleep.
    Think how much more the actuality would do so.
    WW2 and the cold war are inextricably entwined, but without one, the other could have been so much worse.

    As has been said previously, The dropping of the (2) bombs on Japan showed the carnage that "the bomb" is capable of.

    An expensive lesson in human life however, if not Japan, it may have been Korea.

    The cold war kept the bomb under Lock & Key because all were now aware of its power.
     
  3. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    And how does it work? By that reasoning you could say a life of crime works if you elude the police. Is there even a trace of morality or the concept of morality in the "motherland"? Give me something to work with T34.

    I'm not sure that America can shout at any country about 'morality'. America says it stands as a becon of democracy and justice.

    It may have a democratic system of sorts but one in which money and status plays a huge part in who gets elected of the4 two available parties. The fact that a President can be elected despite having less actual votes than the other party. It is a system that economically traps a huge part of the population, just above the poverty line of welfare checks and well below the level that a comfortable living can be earned. The haves and the have nots. 'Land of the free' is not an accurate description.

    As for justice, again, money and power mean that those who have it can get let off from a practically guaranteed conviction. Also America flaunts its power on the international front ignoring the basic legal right of defence and trial for people they feel are in the wrong. If they are wrong you should be able to prove it in a fair trail rather than keep them locked up and segregated for years without trial. Not a case of 'do as I say, not as I do'. If you want to be seen as being on the legal high ground, you have to be seen to apply your own basic legal rights to everyone, even terrorists. Or they have won. You are as bad as they are.

    Communism tends to lead to corruption and unfairness. However, Capitalism is not immune to such things as America repeatedly proves with example after example. It needs checks and balances, but it works better than pure communism.

    The cold war was the result of the polarization of the world politically, fueld by mistrust, secrecy and bolstered with the safety pin of nuclear weapons, that kept the two sides teetering on the edge rather than diving off it.

    But to stand and say that the US system is morally better than anywhere else?
     
  4. jimbotosome

    jimbotosome Discharged

    Ignore this post.
     
  5. jimbotosome

    jimbotosome Discharged

    I'm not sure that America can shout at any country about 'morality'. America says it stands as a becon of democracy and justice.

    It may have a democratic system of sorts but one in which money and status plays a huge part in who gets elected of the4 two available parties. The fact that a President can be elected despite having less actual votes than the other party. It is a system that economically traps a huge part of the population, just above the poverty line of welfare checks and well below the level that a comfortable living can be earned. The haves and the have nots. 'Land of the free' is not an accurate description.

    As for justice, again, money and power mean that those who have it can get let off from a practically guaranteed conviction. Also America flaunts its power on the international front ignoring the basic legal right of defence and trial for people they feel are in the wrong. If they are wrong you should be able to prove it in a fair trail rather than keep them locked up and segregated for years without trial. Not a case of 'do as I say, not as I do'. If you want to be seen as being on the legal high ground, you have to be seen to apply your own basic legal rights to everyone, even terrorists. Or they have won. You are as bad as they are.

    Communism tends to lead to corruption and unfairness. However, Capitalism is not immune to such things as America repeatedly proves with example after example. It needs checks and balances, but it works better than pure communism.

    The cold war was the result of the polarization of the world politically, fueld by mistrust, secrecy and bolstered with the safety pin of nuclear weapons, that kept the two sides teetering on the edge rather than diving off it.

    But to stand and say that the US system is morally better than anywhere else?
    Its hard to read that and see if you are taking a shot at me or you just resent the US. Such misrepresentations of the US are not that uncommon as it is the liberal medias that decide what the Europeans are to believe and since most Europeans don’t realize it out of an alarming and growing trust of socialism, they are hardly in a position to resist such indoctrination. How do I know this is happening here? Because as an American I know the difference and recognize the liberal rhetoric that is so persistently preached to those who don’t.

    I am not saying the US is perfect, anyone can see its not. That’s not a profound assessment of you to point that out. But I will try to help you here. Separate America by liberalism as you should do all truth. The ideals of socialism, communism, liberalism are all intertwined and become a single synonym, each is just a turd of a different color, and they all stink in exactly the same way. The liberals in America that dominate our news medias, almost exclusively, are trying to paint our economy as though we are in economic disaster and in soup lines like back in the 1930s. They do this despite the fact that unemployment is less than 5% and consumer confidence continues to confound the “experts”. Letting the economy be good with a conservative president is beyond what they can handle. The news media gets up every day, praying to the god of Atheism that they can somehow find something to smear the conservative president with. The reason the vitriol for “W” Bush is not so much because he is a conservative as the fact he does not give a crap what they think and their enormous and unfounded egos cannot bear that. They are truly in a rabid fury trying even committing treason and encouraging enemy in Iraq by trying to sew confusion in the US. It is the most sickening display of the lack of humanity and selfishness that I have ever witnessed. So you are told what they want you to be told and you are NOT to believe anything different.

    As far as the money in politics, that is the way of the world. It is not a US thing, it is a human thing. It is either going to be shown openly or passed under the table. The US is simply open about it and makes and opens its whole electoral process up for the world to see. Britain is the same way.

    As for a president not requiring a majority, to me that does not matter because it is just a legacy system that existed when people couldn’t “go to Washington” to vote. They would elect and send delegate. The electoral college is not a misunderstood system. The candidates campaign for it. If it were a majority vote only, then their campaign trails would take on different strategies. Neither can complain. They campaigned to the electoral college and has a result that follows that strategy, and would campaign to the total votes if that were the law. Even Bill Clinton (complete sleaze to Americans, a god walking amongst men to the Europeans) never got the simple majority vote, in fact, W’s second term did get it and got many more votes than either of Clintons.

    As for a system that “traps” a huge part of the population just about the poverty line, I don’t think Karl Marx could have stated that baseless rhetoric any better, nor Howard Dean, the head of the Democratic Party. That rhetoric is the only way liberals can get votes, that is to make it look like the “haves” are taking from the “have-nots” and that “they” will be the savior of the “have-nots” if they will merely send them to Washington to represent them.

    First let’s cover what is “poor”. What does poor mean? It depends on who is defining it. To Bill Gates, I am extremely poor. But, on the other hand, the impoverished in the US are “EXTREMELY rich” by the standards of Russians. The US poverty level in 2005 was about $13,000 for a two member family (the California minimum wage is $14,000 and that’s the very least they can pay you without overtime!). This is typically someone that quit school at a young age and gets a menial unskilled job or is too lazy to work and goes on welfare. A professional 4-year degree Russian is lucky to make $70 a month which works out to be $840 per year. In addition, in the US, the medical care for the “impoverished” is free, they also get credits if they have children to “boost” their income, and the groceries and supplies are available from half the churches in town or some charities that help the poor. The government builds them housing and rents it cheap according to what they pay and even supply them with utilities, and gives them food coupons which are like money in the grocery stores. These people usually have very nice cars, TVs, have a carton a week smoking habit, many are alcoholics, and are usually quite obese from overeating. After all, they have to have something to spend the "poverty" wages on since the goverment gives them everything else.

    Those ARE your poor in the US. The rich in most countries would trade places with them in a second. So then, why are these people “poor”? When you the London Times or the New York Times to get your “understanding” of what is going on in America, there are quite a few important details that don’t appear. The most important is “why are they poor”? The socialist/liberal/communist believes that there should be no differentiation of wealth that the guy who works his butt off should get the same amount as the guy who chooses to stay home and draw a check. Reasonable people think otherwise but then again I did say socialist/liberal/communist. They believe that giving all the money to the government (and therefore absolute power) to distribute evenly as it sees fit, is better than letting the people earn what they want depending on how much effort they exert.

    No one likes to work. In the mornings, I would just like to stay in bed, get up at 2pm and turn on soap operas and eat bon-bons. This I could do. But then on the other hand, I also like to fly, I like my house, I having money to spend on what I want to spend it and have too much pride to take money I don’t deserve from the government. So, my series of “choices” (did you get that word, choices) in life were based on that ideal. I didn’t drop out of high school, I didn’t spend my free time after high school just bumming around and partying, I went to college and applied myself, even got education loans, even though now days you can get grants and scholarships to pay for just about all of your undergraduate work and much of the graduate work. When completed, I got a job at a good company, where I worked hard and tried to excel where my income progressively rose as I helped my employer prosper, he helps me by rewarding me for my work and experience gained by increasing my salary and getting bonuses.

    Now, what if I had “chosen” (there goes that word again) to take a slightly easier route. Let’s say I was rebellious and didn’t like high school teachers to tell me what to do, so I cut classes, sleep in class and advance to the next grade merely because the “liberal” ideals in our school system didn’t want to “discourage” me with failure. Let’s say when I was old enough to quit his school, I decided to do so and just hung around town in the day living off my parents. What a life! Do nothing, enjoy the sunshine, sleep late and catch Oprah in the afternoon and hear about how “the man” is holding me down. Election time, my “friend” the liberal Democrat has told me that there are people with money and since I have none, he needs my vote to go to Washington and correct this situation (socialism). Of course, it sounds good to me because the “haves” have made me a “have-not”, we all know that, even “Oprah” says that. So, I vote and elect this dude. He goes and votes for more social programs, which drive up taxes as the government is so inefficient it takes in tons of money, consumes most of it and gives me a slight increase in my check of say 3%. But in the process, the taxation also drove up the cost of living by 4%. But what do I care, my check has a bigger number on it and since I didn’t take economics in school (I dropped out, remember?) I don’t have a clue what has happened, I just know that the “haves” have cost me again. Now I need to get a job. Well, all that will hire me are companies that have menial jobs, nothing I can enjoy and they only pay the minimum wage. I must send some more socialists/liberals/communists to Washington get me relief. How could my life have turned out so difficult? All I did was like having a good time!

    So, in these scenarios, you saw a common word “CHOICE”. People in the US, CHOSE to be rich or poor. All the US offers them is the opportunity to prosper, it will not and cannot force them to do so. Land of the free? Absolutely. You are at complete freedom to choose to be rich or poor. You do not have the choice of being poor like in Russia, too many give-aways freebees, tax credits, gifts in the cold hearted capitalist system of the US. The government does NOT "owe" you a living. That's socialism remember? In capitalism, it is up to you to determine your position in life. Just as in an flying an airplane, "your attitude determines your altitude".

    Concerting your objections of injustice, we are governed by laws. These laws apply equally to everyone. That is all the justice a government can ensure. The rest is up to people. A criminal is tried by a jury of 12 of his peers. If the people who are peers are dumber than dog crap or have an axe to grind and use it to make a statement against government, then you get things like that in the liberal states. Liberal states like California worship actors and athletes. A jury of liberals can be duped, paid off, or whatever. Take OJ for instance. Move that trial to the south and they would have put him to death and the trial would not have been a media circus. This is why I don’t live in California. Liberals love injustice as long as it is not toward them are the ones that diligently study the law looking for ways to exploit it, sue someone, or escape justice from something they did. Hire a slick liberal lawyer who is not afraid to lie his soul away to win the case and you have a good chance to get off. Bring them to Tennessee and you better fire up the “electric chair” because the “red-necks” as our liberal friends call us and order you to call us as well, don’t believe that it is ok to murder two people, just because you won the Heisman trophy. Southerers just won't put up with gross stupidity. Southerners are mocked because they are a mixture of Scottish and Irish have a different accent but they are not the fools the northern liberals are, despite the fact the liberals are too stupid to realize it.

    Lastly your issue of our treatment of terrorists. Terrorist that are not American citizens have no rights according to the constitution. They are captives of the military, not the US Criminal Justice system. You sound like a liberal is standing in your ear telling you what to say. I can tell you have bought ALL the liberal rhetoric, not just most of it as you haven’t missed a beat. As far as military captives are concerned, if they are in uniform, we apply the Geneva Convention to them if they do not apply it. If not in uniform, they are defined as spies. If they have no declaration of war, then they are simply murderers. You should know this because your country does the same thing. Extracting information out of spies and soldiers by sleep depravation, loud rock music playing, etc, is not cruelty especially when the information they have and refuse to give has American lives and allies lives at stake. Your “terrorists are just misunderstood people who have had a hard life so let them go” attitude comes straight off the wire of the Associated Press. These are the people that cut the heads off of innocent contractors and show it on TV with scarves over their heads.

    With those misrepresentations, you would make a heck of a US Democrat. You could join the liberal media, and could cover up the Saddam tapes, the findings of chemical weapons in Iraq, the testamony of the Iraqi head of the Air Force who claims he and three other pilots flew their weapons to Syria on stripped civilian airliners, refuse to show the torture tapes of individuals in Iraq, vote to go to war and then act as though Bush acted without reason and alone, and then commit treason in hopes that getting your soldiers killed in order that a well liked opposition party president would lose favor with the people, get your every denigrating word quoted on Al Jazeera to discourage a nation, make up stories about flushing Koran pages down the toilet getting soldiers killed until it was proved you were lying, heck, you would even have a fleet of immoral lawyers to help you get away if you are caught. You could then get on staff of the AP and tell the Europeans what they are to believe about the situations in the world, uncensored and unaccountable. Nothing is too good for a US liberal.

    Sorry Kitty, I know what you are thinking. I really did try to keep it short, but it is hard to point out foolishness and deception without going into detail. I will try to make my next post a one liner!
     
  6. jimbotosome

    jimbotosome Discharged

    Jimbo you bite and don't let go.
    Ashamed to say it but you are right. I am overprincipled to my own hurt. But in fairness, everyone has a subject that they are passonate about. The exploitation of humans is one of mine. Annoying? Quite possibly. Noble? I sure hope so.
     
  7. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    Jimbo, I often disagree with you. Not on the grounds that I don't like you, after all, I have never met you. In the same way, you have never met me. You know nothing about my polotics and what I feel is particularly right or wrong about different systems around the world other than what I have told you.

    In return you sit there and tell me what I know about polotics around the world, the legal system in the US the measurement of poverty around the world. You know nothing about what I have seen or experienced of what I say and treat me like some deluded, morinic, brainwashed imbicile.

    Democracy is the voice of the people to choose their government. If more people choose one than the other and the other takes control, right or wrong, my opinion is that it cannot be the true voice of the people. I accept that it is their system and if they want it changed it is their problem to find a way to do so, again, that is part of democracy.

    If a russian earns $70 a month and an american $1400, it depends purely on the cost of living locally who is poor and who is not. My other half lived in the US of 15 years before I changed her mind and showed her the light. She held down 2 reasonably well paid jobs and the cost of living was such that by the time she had the essencials of normall US living she was unable to afford good medical insurance. All medical problems had to be paid out of her pocket. Choice? Not at all. An isolated incident? Not wher she lived. Earnt too much for welfare to pay, not able to pay herself.

    Legal side of life, if you'vce got money and can buy off the right people, if you are a celebrity and can get idiots of the jury on your side you can literally get away with murder. That's a good system? What happened to all people being equal in the eyes of the law?

    Again I point out, suspected terrorists were captured under the guise of being 'captives of war' and are not even being given the protection of the LoAC. No civilian, no military, no legal protection at all. They are being kept captive without trial or representation for years. I am a soldier, don't try and tell me that what the US is doing has anything at all to do with POWs or LoAC. Would the US consider similar actions agains their citizens as legal? With actions like that, is it any wonder that the world views America with so much contempt?

    I would like to point out5 that I am not anti-american, a liberal, a communist or brainwashed. My last post was to point out that for you to stand there and call another regime 'Imorral' you should at least view your own without the rose coloured specs. What you in fact did, was to show that it is you whou has no balanced view on the world, you if anyone who has been brainwashed and that you are someone who's opinion I do not cosider worthy of consideration. In short you are not worth my time and rather than get myself in trouble I'll just not bother with your posts.
    :sign_alright:
     
  8. Herroberst

    Herroberst Senior Member

    I'm not sure that America can shout at any country about 'morality'.

    America says it stands as a beacon of democracy and justice.(No that's the crap written on the Statue of Liberty,
    We have the French to thank for that)

    It may have a democratic system of sorts, one in which money and status plays a huge part in who gets elected from the two parties

    (spoken like a true red socialist)

    The fact that a President can be elected despite having less actual votes than the other party.


    It is a system that economically traps a huge part of the population, just above the poverty line of welfare checks and well below the level that a comfortable living can be earned. The haves and the have nots. 'Land of the free' is not an accurate description.

    You've just described the Democratic Party doctrine to a T




    As for justice, again, money and power mean that those who have it can get let off from a practically guaranteed conviction. Also America flaunts its power on the international front ignoring the basic legal right of defence and trial for people they feel are in the wrong. If they are wrong you should be able to prove it in a fair trail rather than keep them locked up and segregated for years without trial. Not a case of 'do as I say, not as I do'. If you want to be seen as being on the legal high ground, you have to be seen to apply your own basic legal rights to everyone, even terrorists. Or they have won. You are as bad as they are.


    You are seriously beyond all intellectual hope

    Communism tends to lead to corruption and unfairness. However, Capitalism is not immune to such things as America repeatedly proves with example after example. It needs checks and balances, but it works better than pure communism.

    The cold war was the result of the polarization of the world politically, fueld by mistrust, secrecy and bolstered with the safety pin of nuclear weapons, that kept the two sides teetering on the edge rather than diving off it.

    But to stand and say that the US system is morally better than anywhere else?

    Well Well Well, A closet communist. Please I hear enough of this babble from Hollywood. You and Rosy O'Donnell would make great pals. About as well thought out as Tom Cruise's brain waves. Right up there with the intellectual ability of Charlie Sheen.

    Kitty, dearest I was referring to Owen.

    Owen, if you don't like this thread then start a good one.
    What is your expertise in WWII? I would like to learn from your insight on something that I'm not familiar with on the subject(note: I am being sincere)

    T-34 Interesting comments please continue

    Jim good counter arguments please continue

    Now for Pot Plant...I owe you a sincere response. I detect some anti-Americanism. Go see Flight 93 or rent it on DVD when it comes out and you will understand true blue Americanism. We were attacked by fundamentalistic militarist islamic terrorists in 1993 then again on the USS Cole DDG67 and of course September 11th which is the subject of the movie Flight 93. This was a sneak attack the same as Pearl Harbor. Although the worst Japanese individual of WWII has more honor than any of the Islamic terrorists. After you see that movie relate it to the subway attacks in London then maybe you'll understand.

    We didn't start the war they did. When you are attacked your response is justified no matter what that response . Actually you have bought into the Left crap about being the worlds policemen. America has problems with certain self-destructive elements that have infiltrated its government. Hopefully that will be taken care of as the Hippie, Greenhead, birkenstock, John Lennon
    following, Liberals fall from Power in the Senate, House and Judiciary.
     
  9. Herroberst

    Herroberst Senior Member

    Again I point out, suspected terrorists were captured under the guise of being 'captives of war' and are not even being given the protection of the LoAC.

    They are being kept captive without trial or representation for years.

    I am a soldier, don't try and tell me that what the US is doing has anything at all to do with POWs or LoAC. Would the US consider similar actions agains their citizens as legal?

    In short you are not worth my time and rather than get myself in trouble I'll just not bother with your posts.



    All considerations for military personnel were given to those men under arms in the Iraqi Army during both military actions. I might add as were given to the Germans in uniform during WWII. In both conlficts those not wearing uniforms come under a different code of treatment and conduct. You as a soldier should now that.

    In WWII the Wehrwolves were shot that were captured by British, American and French forces. If you think America was bad read about what the French did to those they captured.

    Currently the United States is holding suspect terrorists...So what...How they are treated....So what...They don't wear uniforms and are not soldiers...There is a difference....once again you should know that.

    Be glad I'm not running the show...Look up the Whitehorse unit of the ROK in Vietnam. Or read about the Phoenix project...The current American response to these animals is mild in comparison to all past conflicts...be glad you weren't a tax collector in the American Revolution.

    Look I love England it is my geneological home. But idealists like you certainly don't ensure her future.
     
  10. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    Sorry Kitty, I know what you are thinking. I really did try to keep it short, but it is hard to point out foolishness and deception without going into detail. I will try to make my next post a one liner!
    Actually, I was thinking this :banghead:
     
  11. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    Kitty, dearest I was referring to Owen.

    Owen, if you don't like this thread then start a good one.
    Sorry mate. I forgot Owen got in there before me.
    Okay, so please allow me to do a little bit of unofficial Moding. Please, lads, calm down a little. Go away, chill, have half a shandy, then come back. It's getting to the point i need to bring a bucket of iced water whenever i visit this thread.
    There are brilliant arguments and counter-arguments, but it's getting a wee bit out of hand. Please don't jump on me here as i am enjoying the thread and the discussion it has generated. But lads, please tone it down otherwise the big bad mods will shut us down again.
    Kitty
     
  12. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Owen, if you don't like this thread then start a good one.
    What is your expertise in WWII? I would like to learn from your insight on something that I'm not familiar with on the subject(note: I am being sincere)

    Here should be a list of all the threads I've started.
    I'm more interested in human stories and Unit Histories. The big picture is not my thing.
    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/search.php?searchid=11342&pp=25
     
  13. Herroberst

    Herroberst Senior Member

    You never need to say you're sorry to me O' flower of the internet. Gott, I can be corny at times. I would never attack you unless you ally yourself with that leader of Scottish clans in the Northland. Besides the moderator thing you should have sided with me on that thread.
     
  14. Herroberst

    Herroberst Senior Member

    You guys type to fast Owen that was meant for Kitty.

    Thank you for a cool thread Owen(I am saying this again...I am sincere, only because I've been sarcastic with others lately)
     
  15. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    You never need to say you're sorry to me O' flower of the internet. Gott, I can be corny at times. I would never attack you unless you ally yourself with that leader of Scottish clans in the Northland. Besides the moderator thing you should have sided with me on that thread.
    Corny is fine by me, it made me blush! Flower of the internet! Good lord, I haven't laughed this hard since, well, my last Politics lecture.
    And what s wrong with allying myself with a man in a skirt? He happens to have an accent that makes me go all tingly.
    And which thread? The grand battle of Good Sir Oby and Lady Kitty? I kinda miss it. Think we should start round 2? Maybe with...i hardly dare say it...but aircraft? I might post in there tomorrow if I can think straight. ish.
    So boys, are you going to calm down just a teensy bit? Please? For me?
    Kitty
     
  16. Herroberst

    Herroberst Senior Member

    I am perfectly calm but opinionated and factual. Truth be known I prefer fun and theatrics like the Fantasy Battle thread.
     
  17. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    I am perfectly calm but opinionated and factual. Truth be known I prefer fun and theatrics like the Fantasy Battle thread.
    I'm cool with opinionated so long as you agree with everything i say. Okay, i'll kick off the Battle thread again tomorrow once i have had time to think of a suitable excuse. See you there Sir Oby.
    You know, it's a damn sad lookout when I'm the calm responsible one in a thread.
    Kitty
     
  18. Herroberst

    Herroberst Senior Member

    See the best content for a play like the Battle thread is betrayal remember all those Greek plays.;) :blush:
     
  19. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    Currently the United States is holding suspect terrorists...So what...How they are treated....So what...They don't wear uniforms and are not soldiers...There is a difference....once again you should know that.

    Suspect, and that is the key word, suspect terrorists from Afghanistan are being held. If they are suspect terrorists, they are criminals and as such must be held and treated as criminals under criminal law. No ifs or buts, that is the legal position, and one that has been ignored by the US

    The only exception to that is if there has been an official declaration of war or armed conflict between two governments. If under those circumstances prisoners are taken they must be held away from hostilities until their government has capitulated or there is a cesation of hostilities. While in captivitiy they should be allowed visits from the international red cross.

    There was no official declaration of war on Afghanistan, just a 'war on Terror (??), a new government is in place in Afghanistan and appart from insurgent attacks against the new government (not a war) hostilities were declared over years ago.

    If a nation decides that it can flaunt laws, or make the rules up as it goes along, it does nothing to earn respect from fledgling or old world nations alike. In fact this 'we do what we want attitude is probably responsible for 90% of the negetive attitudes that the travelling American meets.

    I ask again. If it was American citizens being treated like this would you class it as perfectly leagal and above board?:mellow:

    I you say that it was 'them' that started it, not the US. But I would argue that it is very likely that it is the perception of a bullying US forign policy that got them worked up. If it was just a difference in ideology you'd have thought that they would have been happy attacking Israel and the Vatican City.
     
  20. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Well Well Well, A closet communist.
    Well well well, it's Joe McCarthy. Only 50 years too late.
    Rather knee-jerk response to a mild critique of American (or any other) democracy?.
    So some examination of the political processes we live under immediately makes the examiner a communist?
    Odd that.
    Never really thought of George Washington and his boys being Communists...
    But as you only ever offer us the "factual" then I suppose it must be so.

    I'll just put my big wooden spoon down now and observe that this thread, if read all the way through, is a pretty good evocation of many of the Major Issues of the Cold War, there's the Bomb, Intransigence, misunderstanding, mistrust, fear of spies, occaisional moments of clarity, fear, diplomacy, unquestioning obedience to Dogma, counter dogma, irreconcilable ideologies, California Uber Alles, communism, mixed and confusing terminologies, calls for peace, calls for attack, dogged defence, accusations, counter-accusations, bluster and strife.
    And also not unlike the cold war the best that could be obtained in the wake of previous wars was......
    The status quo.
    Nobody actually got any more Atom Bombs dropped on 'em.
    Nearly all good stuff.


    Do Svidanja,
    Have a nice day,
    & Cheers.
     

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