WW2 resulted in a Cold War

This computer is playing me up again...
So if Russia, which let us say is more of a geo-political alliance than a country as such, was goverened/ruled by a single individual, then it would be easier for the Russian people to accept as they could look up to that one person, and not at a government which merely ties itself into knots and only serves it's own ends (sounds like ours).
However, as Russia is such a large 'country' it has many different people and races within it's boundaries, all of them with different beliefs and ideas, making it almost impossible to be goverened. So Russia as a country needs a strong ruler at it's head.
Instability is a factor of life in Russia, and so it needs a strong but flexible leader, not a set-in-it's-ways government. Hmm. Food for thought there.

The problem with that premise is that it assumes that instability is inherent to a race of people. To me it has to be a culture not a race. Culture you can change a race you can't. A government that is not controlled by the people has no incentive to deal with problems of the people so neglect is inevitable.

Enslaving people creates a self-fulling instability nature, you groom them away from being able to stand for themselves and judge for themselves. It is sort of like when people come out of prison or a POW camp, if they have been in there a long time, they come out and they are in a mental prison because they have forgotten how to think for themselves.

Contrary to T34's claim, nobody "likes" being enslaved. They may prefer it over death, but they certainly don't like it. I made the analogy applying it to the concept of a concentration camp but it flew over his head.

 

The past of Russia is highly dubious in my opinion. You are the one claiming that the Communists saved the Russian people. That is not the opinion of the Russian people I know. It might be yours as a communist, but it ain't theirs. Saddam Hussein believed he was a liberator and a great leader of the Iraqi people.
never trust the immigrants, by the way.
the past of any country is dubious, and america, for instance, is not an exclusion here.
so, let me explain to you that it doesnt matter much what kind of authority rules russia, communists or else, more of importance - the ability of such an authority to solve problems - at the time of ww2 it was stalin, in 19th century in a war against napoleon it was tzar...
as for the case of iraq: who gave you, americans, the right to decide (maybe a huge libel campaign you preorganised?) what is best for the people of sovereing country, as if you dont have problems with your own politics.

 

A government that is not controlled by the people has no incentive to deal with problems of the people so neglect is inevitable.
Enslaving people creates a self-fulling instability nature, you groom them away from being able to stand for themselves and judge for themselves. It is sort of like when people come out of prison or a POW camp, if they have been in there a long time, they come out and they are in a mental prison because they have forgotten how to think for themselves.
1. it seems we have a vicious circle here, then you have nothing to do but condone with it.
2. well, japan is doing fine with its neo-feudalism as actual form of society, and china is a growing economy under strict communist authority.
3. i dont see the westerners as freely-thinking persons, quite contrary - most of them are sheer narrow-mindedners full of stereotypes.

 

Maybe this disucssion should now move to the Politics thread in the Barracks, as it has wandered away from WW2 so much.
Besides, Jimbo and i still l need to discuss TB.

 

I think WW2 only heightened hostilities between Russia and the U.S. Capitalism and Communism(however impure, as it was in Russia) can't exist together, You can't have both, they are complete opposites, like matter and anti-matter. They both wanted supreme policing powers over the world, and you can't have two seperate police departments controlling the same district, it would prove disasterous. after the Soviets detonated their first hydrogen bomb in 1950 the Cold war escalated to a significantly higher level than at the end of ww2.

 

Capitalism and Communism(however impure, as it was in Russia) can't exist together, You can't have both, they are complete opposites, like matter and anti-matter.
china proved that communism/capitalism combination is quite possible.

 

But look at not only their human rights record, but also the gulf between the have's and the have-not's. Communism/Capitalism is only working there because of the heavy hand of the few in power. And the country appears to be completely corrupt. It's the best for a few, and sod the rest. This topic really does need to move to the barracks HINT HINT!

 

May I strongly suggest to those of you who wish to discuss the various political philosophies; would they please use the politcs thread in the barracks!

Otherwise please return to the topic at hand

 

china proved that communism/capitalism combination is quite possible.
No, they proved that capitalism works if there is something to steal. They do this by treating other nation's things as community property which is what Communism is. You can't have both they are opposites. There is no such thing as Private/Public wealth. Their economy is capitalist, their politics are totalitarian. Their government still treats the people like scum. This I know. We work with Chinese groups. They are a nation of brute force labor. They develop, they copy and steal things because they still beleive everything is public property. If the prospering nations were not developing the things the Chinese steal and copy, then they would be starving. Take away the stealing so prevalent in Communism and you have no signficant revenue source. The only labor they can do is menial production labor. They are not machinists, engineers, etc, they just stuff the resistor in the hole and move the board down the line. Simple repetitive tasks.

Communism is a consumer not a producer. It devours only. It is an insatiable process of destroying wealth. That's why it must take in one form or another, from capitalist nations. Russia is the same way, they copy and steal designs and products to sell on the black market. There is simply no creativity in people whose government enslaves them. It really is that simple.

 

May I point out to a would be moderator and a real moderator that If a correlation is made between current issues and the start of those geopolitics, which was WWII resulting in the Cold War caused by the power vaccum of a destroyed Nazi State is made then it should be fair game. The Cold War is not over. China and America are still left. Traditionally the Cold War refers to Russia and the US but a broader interpretation includes China. I have learned something from what T34 has said that was interesting and corroberated some of my beliefs on Russian History. Disagreeing is part of learning. Censorship of knowledge also relates to WWII with Hitlers book burning. Look if the topic was technical daten then I could see move it but the start of the thread was meant to be provocative then leave it be. This let's all sit around, smoke weed, put flowers in all the guns, sanitized attitude of offending no one is unrealistic and for those on the lower end of the intellectual scale. Argument of ideas is a good thing...Too much can be tiresome but then some of you, where are the good threads??? There is nothing wrong with saying your wrong about xyz but there is something wrong saying that Bill Bob Johnboy is an xyz(sob).

:twocents:

 

No, they (chinese) proved that capitalism works if there is something to steal. They do this by treating other nation's things as community property which is what Communism is. You can't have both they are opposites. There is no such thing as Private/Public wealth. Their economy is capitalist, their politics are totalitarian.
...but their economy works anyway, and given a fact that the U.S. at this very moment are robbing people of Iraq of their country's oil resources, china seems to just follow an american example.

 

May I point out to a would be moderator and a real moderator that If a correlation is made between current issues and the start of those geopolitics, which was WWII resulting in the Cold War caused by the power vaccum of a destroyed Nazi State is made then it should be fair game. The Cold War is not over. China and America are still left. Traditionally the Cold War refers to Russia and the US but a broader interpretation includes China. I have learned something from what T34 has said that was interesting and corroberated some of my beliefs on Russian History. Disagreeing is part of learning. Censorship of knowledge also relates to WWII with Hitlers book burning. Look if the topic was technical daten then I could see move it but the start of the thread was meant to be provocative then leave it be. This let's all sit around, smoke weed, put flowers in all the guns, sanitized attitude of offending no one is unrealistic and for those on the lower end of the intellectual scale. Argument of ideas is a good thing...Too much can be tiresome but then some of you, where are the good threads??? There is nothing wrong with saying your wrong about xyz but there is something wrong saying that Bill Bob Johnboy is an xyz(sob).
There there Oby, it's okay. You have a good cry now, you'll feel better for it. But may i say very good point there? Maybe we should move the politics Thread to here?
And me getting Mods tapes? Don't make me laugh! I can't do responsible for myself, let alone anybody else! I'll just continue to be the scaley brat and instigator of highjacks. Owen, i'm kidding on that one.
T34. Hmm, i feel as if i should say very goodpoint on that US/China comment, but I don't want to incur the wrath of other posters. I see what you are saying. The Cold War is not over, but whilst Russia was a dominant player it's place is being usurped by China, and we now have another multi-power struggle going on.
The thing is, if it escalates as Round 1 did all those years ago, would China and the US be wise enough now not to press the button? I think i might have to start worrying again.
Kitty

 

The 'beauty' of the cold war was that it didn't escalate too often, M.A.D. (mutually assured destruction) tended to make Governments think twice before going to war. A dramatically polarised world with a Balanced pair of potential combatants did at least contribute to some strange level of stability.
Officially it's known as Bi-Polar. There is also Uni-Polar and Multi-Polar. The Cold War is the first for obvious reasons. See i paid attention in that politics class.

There is a theory that a superpower will always need an enemy, (with no 'them' there can be no 'us'). While the Former USSR strives to recover world power status then China can sneak in and fill the gap. Personally I'd rather be polarised against a power who's interest is primarily in Trade (as China is....at the moment) than against the random groups and ideologist bogeymen we're currently facing.
Sleep tight,
Adam.
Thank you. I shall now have nightmares for a week thinking about that. You horrible person you!
A frankly very worried Kitty now.

 

But if the threat of war disturbs the sleep.
Think how much more the actuality would do so.
WW2 and the cold war are inextricably entwined, but without one, the other could have been so much worse.

Now you expect me to actually SLEEP!
Insomniac Kitty

 

...but their economy works anyway, and given a fact that the U.S. at this very moment are robbing people of Iraq of their country's oil resources, china seems to just follow an american example.
You must work for Tass or at least ghost write for Pravda. I think Saddam was the one robbing Iraq of their oil resources and using the oil vouchers to buy weapons from the Soviets who would sell someone a gun to shoot their own grandmother if it brought them money.

The money we have spent trying to free the Iraqi people of Iraq and give them a chance to rule their own govenment could buy the oil reserves of several nations for decades. It's called principles and scruples to help the suffering when you can. Maybe someone that speaks Rusky could explain it to you as I know it must be an alien word in the ears of a Communist.

And how does it work? By that reasoning you could say a life of crime works if you elude the police. Is there even a trace of morality or the concept of morality in the "motherland"? Give me something to work with T34.

Nice try but that one comes up a little lame and sounding a little desperate.

 

The money we have spent trying to free the Iraqi people of Iraq and give them a chance to rule their own govenment could buy the oil reserves of several nations for decades. It's called principles and scruples to help the suffering when you can. Maybe someone that speaks Rusky could explain it to you as I know it must be an alien word in the ears of a Communist.

Love the typo Jimbo.
Okay, so billions are being pumped into Iraq to rebuild it, but I'm afraid i have a slight problem with it (Don't get me wrong, i wanted Saddam whacked as much as the next person, but I object to it being done on lies).
Now all of these billions are being paid by America to American companies! The rebuild and the dosh should be going to Iraqi companies! That's a rebuild! Please do not get me started.
But just a quick question, how did we get from WW2/Cold War, to China, to America and back to Iraq? Anyone who gives me a coherent answer in three short paragraphs wins a crisp. Salt & Vinegar this time as Gnomey had the Cheese & Onion one. Cheers in advance.