Discussion in 'General' started by Bob Wilton, Oct 26, 2014.

  1. Bob Wilton

    Bob Wilton Junior Member

    My guess it was the Soviet Union.
    Margaret Ann likes this.
  2. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    The Italians... :)

    My logic is this... If the Italian Army had been as equally effective as the German Army then the Soviet Union and the British (and its Commonwealth) would have been defeated. But the Italian Army was comparatively ineffective.

    The Italian Army then swapped sides in late 1943 and fought with the Allies.

    As such, its ineffectiveness as an Axis member contributed most decisively to the defeat of the Germans; and it was a 'Johnny come lately' Allie.


    Drew5233 likes this.
  3. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery


    I think the answer would be all Allies involved.
    Not sure you can put one above the other.
    Perhaps a different type of contribution from each ?

    Margaret Ann likes this.
  4. Bob Wilton

    Bob Wilton Junior Member

    I think I am right in saying that Germany had 74 divisions in Russia.I believe if it had not been for the Russians defeating the Wehrmacht on the ground the war would have ended differently.I believe the Germans were a spent force force after they were defeated in the east.We the allies who landed at Normandy fought hard and well to defeat them in western Europe.I believe there were about 44 German Divisions in Normandy,and if Germany had won in Russia and we were facing 114 divisions in Normandy we would have lost the war and most probably not have got of the beaches.The German army of 1939 was better fighting force and had a large army.Maybe if they had concentrated on us first after the expeditionary force was forced to retreat,and invaded the UK and got us out of the way,then they could have used all their divisions in the east to defeat Russia. This is of course my opinion.
  5. Bob Wilton

    Bob Wilton Junior Member

    I hope I don't offend anyone but,I do not consider the Italian army in WW2 a fighting force.I believe the Wehrmacht in North Africa considered them a liability,and I have heard Afrika Korps vets say the same thing.
  6. steelers708

    steelers708 Junior Member

    Whilst the Italian infantry suffered, the armoured divisions had a good reputation with the Germans despite there inferior equipment.
  7. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    I think I would go along with your first post Bob, and largely agree with post #4.
  8. ethan

    ethan Member

    Which army? The red army.
    what factors? Russian blood, American treasure and the British will to fight alone until the former two were dragged in.
  9. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Have heard and read lots of rubbish in my time but the Italian Armoured corps take the biscuit as do many other opinions -

    I know it's early in this thread but I haven't seen or heard any opinions about the British 8th Army which wiped up a joint German /
    Italian army of 250 thousand in the Desert then went on to hold off some 55 Divisions from interfering with both the D Day wallahs

    and the Russians by fighting their tails off for a period of 1940 to 1945- notta lotta people know about that - and it's overdue to

    know something about it…

    Margaret Ann likes this.
  10. Bob Wilton

    Bob Wilton Junior Member

    Yes,the Americans sat on the wall in WW1 and did so again in 1939. Yes,much Russian blood was spilt in the war 25,000,000 of them died it makes the allied losses very small indeed.And I agree that the Americans looted gold and other treasures from Germany as its well recorded.They say they bumped off General Patton in a road accident as he was on his way to investigate the theft.Its a good job we were an Island or we would have never stopped the German war machine as it rolled across Europe.

  11. Bob Wilton

    Bob Wilton Junior Member

    I have read where one armoured car of the Kings Dragoon Guards in North Africa took 4,000 Italian prisoners who surrendered ,and there is a picture to prove it Tom.

  12. The Cooler King

    The Cooler King Elite Member

    The Red Army definately...............they effectively destroyed the Wermacht and sucked in the vast majority of the German resources.
    Margaret Ann likes this.
  13. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Bob Wilton

    For ONE armoured car to take 4000 prisoners in the desert - must have been before breakfast…

    canuck likes this.
  14. Jedburgh22

    Jedburgh22 Very Senior Member

    It was a Team effort between the major Allies, however without the industrial and logistic capacity of the USA it is doubtful if Britain or russia would have prevailed.
    Margaret Ann likes this.
  15. Bob Wilton

    Bob Wilton Junior Member

    The armoured car was on a patrol and an Italian Officer came over a sand dune and said something like will you take the surrender of my men.It was agreed and when he came back he had 4,000 men with him.Seen a picture somewhere and I will try and find it.

  16. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books


    Just went to count them, and by 4 July there were about 109 German divisions (give or take, I am sure I miscounted including east front reserves, Murmansk/Finland, and security divisions) assigned to defeating Russia. Romanians, Slovaks, Finns, etc. are extra. Puts the whole thing into perspective.

    All the best

  17. spidge


    Hi Bob,

    Thought I would put these "German Division placements by month ww2" to leave no doubt about the Russians however they did have quite a lot of assistance from the US, Britain and Canada with war material that gave them an edge when things could have gone either way while they were rebuilding after moving their manufacturing to the east out of range of German bombers.

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  18. sol

    sol Very Senior Member

    I really don't see what is point of this question. Or in general any question on similar theme like "who/what/which is the best/worst general/weapon/army ..." etc. And why is a title of the thread in capital letters. It's looks like someone is yelling or that it's have some very important information.
    L J likes this.
  19. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    Agree. We've been here before, I reckon, or something very similar.

    Bob - CAPS is shouting.


    (waiting for the next 'what if...")
  20. Bob Wilton

    Bob Wilton Junior Member

    Does it real matter if the title is in capitals.Should we question your threads,or should we just answer them as all questions encourages members to do.If you have nothing better to do than nit pick at other members posts,then maybe you should
    find something more constructive to occupy your mind.

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