WHICH ALLIED ARMY IN WWII CONTRIBUTED THE MOST IN DEFEATING NAZI GERMANY

Bob, If you have an interest in WW1, may I suggest you also join the great war forum, if you have not already. I'm sure you will have a most singular experience (as Mr Holmes would say).

Cheers,

geoff

 

Seems you are missing my point.

1) with regards WW1 Germany famine/food..of course it relates to more essential products than just the food, for civilians , military and production use.
If it wasn't then why didn't the german military keep on fighting an defending the many miles between Brussels and Aachen ? Demoralisation...
That the WW2 bombing and Navy process hadn't finished, doesn't make it less essential for the russian troops to advance as massively as they did.
Imagine , no bombardments over Nazi Germany all the time..how would that have interfered with soviet land progress ?

1b) I don't agree about impact over efficiency. For obviously the soviet troops could fight the years 1941 -1945 because of the continued fights/conditions of the british 1940-1941.
Additionally Moskou was saved by siberian troops that were able to get there BECAUSE Stalin learned that the Japanese would not attack Russia (and so leave that fighting to the USA/China).
Again a contribution of another western ally to the immediate benefit of Stalin.

2) Another thing to realise is that also De Gaulle hinted with Stalin that he only was able to gain time /prolong the war BECAUSE of the large country (and with it the effects of autumn/winter).
Were France in the same condition as the SU (with Paris far, far way from the border frontline), then it too might have prolonged the war.

Bottomline is, what others agree, that all the allies have contributed in their best ability, and that you discredit the other allies who might have lost less casualties (in military and civilians) than the russians (btw mostly by their own incompetence and brutality) for it to conclude that therefore the russians "did"/contribute the most.
I repeat; counting dead men is not the way to decide that.

 

I am not discrediting anyone. You need to learn how to read without imposing your own perception on the writer.

All the best

Andreas

 

I fully agree with your reply Andreas! Best regards Bob

 

The truth is that the allied victory was a teamwork and that no one can claim of having the decisive role .

"Without" the SU,Britain and the US would have defeated Germany .

Britain and the SU would have won without the US .

All the rest is chauvinistic boasting .

 

Additionally Moskou was saved by siberian troops that were able to get there BECAUSE Stalin learned that the Japanese would not attack Russia (and so leave that fighting to the USA/China).
Again a contribution of another western ally to the immediate benefit of Stalin.



This is not correct

 

Bob..

The incident you refer to about British Armoured cars taking all those Italians is factual.

I read about it in a book I had years ago. It featured cars from the 11th Hussars I believe, sitting in the middle of an open field, making radio calls to base about what they could see.

The calls started with notification that they had captured "a Group of Italians". Subsequent calls took the count higher and higher, until the crew admitted that they were "surrounded by a sea of Italians". Not sure of the total count, but 4,000 would sem a little high. If there were a quarter of that figure present, that would be my guess. It's still a lot of people for a lone armoured car to process, herding them back to the rear like so many steers on the range.

Shows just how big a victory OConnor achieved at Beda Fomm, cutting off the italian escape, and knocking out their tanks one by one until their infantry was rendered a rabble. Heady stuff!

 

Don't agree with that. In my view that is modern-day relativism that negates the fact that it is possible to look at individual contributions and see who did what. There is absolutely no doubt that the Heer was bled dry in Eastern Europe, and that this commenced from day one of the campaign in Russia in 1941. Without this, the invasion of France and probably that of Italy would not have been possible.

Now very clearly, in particular Bomber Command's and the USAAF's campaign, and Lend Lease contributed to this from 1942 onwards, really kicking in by 1943/44. But without the Red Army to do the bleeding, Bomber Command and Lend Lease alone would not have been able to deliver the impact. There are also some interesting interactions in late 41 already, with Operation CRUSADER leading to a shortage of air transport in Russia, with however unquantifiable impacts.

The German casualty numbers by front are available, and they make sobering reading. But also equipment losses were substantial - in 1941 up to November, i.e. before LL kicked in, the Germans lost over 2,500 AFVs in the east. Compare that to maybe 250 or so they lost in Greece and North Africa combined.

http://chris-intel-corner.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/tank-strength-and-losses-eastern-front.html

The number of German killed or missing for 1941 is over 200,000, and give or take twice the number of US Army killed and missing in the campaign in Northwest Europe

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=157416

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-E-Supreme/USA-E-Supreme-E.html

In order to defeat the German army in WW2, somebody had to put the Heer through the meatgrinder. The US and the UK weren't able to do it due to geography, they had no point to engage, and a bombing/naval campaign wasn't good enough for this purpose. Just like in WW1, it was necessary to defeat the army in the field.

All the best

Andreas

 

I am talking about the Kings Dragoon Guards,I saw a picture of it in the Queens Dragoon Guards Officers mess when they were in Northern Ireland with the thousands of prisoners walking behind.The Cherry Pickers must have captured loads of Italians too by the sound of it.

 

In order to defeat Germany,it was not needed to put the Heer through the meatgrinder: there was also the A Bomb which would make Overlord superfluous .

 

About the Italian army : I am amazed that some people still are believing the German lies that the Italians were no good (OTOH,it proves that a lie is stronger than a Lord Mayor) :without the Italian "cowards",Rommel would not have lasted a month in NA .

 

The Russians were not incompetent .This is one of the lies from Goebbels,Guderian,Manstein......well,the whole gang .

 

Ah! But without the

In order to defeat Germany,it was not needed to put the Heer through the meatgrinder: there was also the A Bomb which would make Overlord superfluous .


Ah! But without the pressures of the Eastern Front, would the Germans have been able to put up an air defense system that would have made it far more likely that nuclear bombs could not be delivered with the measure of certainty that existed in Japan, where an unarmed B-29 could deliver them in broad daylight with no opposition? So when they don't have to build thousands of tanks and keeping 100+ divisions in battle, how much more does that give them in AA guns and Luftwaffe assets?

There were only 2 nuclear bombs in existence by mid-1945. What if both get lost with their carriers shot down?

You can't have your cake and eat it.

All the best

Andreas

 

Quite.

All the best

Andreas

 

In order to defeat Germany,it was not needed to put the Heer through the meatgrinder: there was also the A Bomb which would make Overlord superfluous .

If the allies were prepared to wait untill August 1945 to drop it on Germany instead of Japan, it wasn't tested untill July 1945, i suspect by then dropping it on Germany would have been superflous as the Russians would be at the French border.

 

The 'what ifs' are pointless, though I know that some find them fun.

Bottom line is (in my view) that whilst Russia might or might not have pushed back the Germans without supplies from the US and UK, the British decision to continue the fight in 1940 is the most important moment in WW2. In was this that allowed the attrition of (mostly) Russian blood and (mostly) American treasure that finally defeated the Nazis.

 

It's right!q
We coud destroy everything.

You shoud only put us aside your enemy!


We also captured "a sea of British" in Tobruk .


Flee in the desert could be a problem without water and by foot.



What if Germany had waited 1941 for Seelöwe, maybe along with Italy and Spain, and taking advantage of the French industry?

 

I will offer the contrarian view that before considering the relative merits of each Allied army, one should think that the only reason for the debate is Hitler and the German High Command. Their decision to fight a simultaneous, multi front war created the conditions for the Allies to each contribute.