But Brereton had been made over all commander 'allied' airborne forces.. Gliders, parachutists etcetera. On August 2, 1944, Brereton was appointed to command the First Allied Airborne Army and retained this post until the end of the war in Europe. Yes, and Operation Market Garden was not just an Airborne operation JoBee. Operation MARKET was the airborne element of the operation to seize the Bridges, Operation GARDEN was the land element. Operation GARDEN comprised of XXX Corps, tanks and Infantry and Support elements. , Montgomery was in Command of the overall operation.
The present day it seems to me, will never understand the striving we took on to reach our brothers in Arnhem. We took on what seemed like a suicide mission to cross the Escaut at night. We did it, and drove on until we were halted by lack of supplies all the way back in Normandy... Many of my mates died on that thrust north to rescue the Airborne, and we went without food, being cut off on the road behind us. We battled on despite everything. Sapper
I'm with Sapper whatever he says! I was with Monty's Ironsides and was proud to be so. As I point of interest my father in the 1914-1918 scuffle also served in the 3rd Div, 9 Brigade at one time same as me. Jim I'M trying to sort out commanders at Arnem, I think it was Monty's plan. Eisenhower and Bradley thought in was too pencil thin, they didn't like it. Who gave it the nod. Brereton had been made over all commander 'allied' airborne forces..
The plan was Monty's, The buck if there is one, stops with him. It failed..So what.... Do you stop fighting when things get rough, sit and your hands and wait for someone else to do it??? No matter the opposition... that golden chance had to be attempted...And everyone involved knew it. That is why we drove on, no matter what the cost. Sapper
Not having been anywhere near NWE at the time of Market Garden it is my memory that while Monty MIGHT have been in overall charge - Brereton was in fact in charge of the overall Air element - with "Boy" Browning as Corp commander- Air Element - so I always felt that going on past History - Brereton was among the missing and Monty and Browning took all of the blame... This past history goes back to just before El Alamein when Alex brought up a bunch of generals et al to meet Monty and Brereton was NOT introduced to Monty - somehow - and as they sat down to lunch- Monty was asked to move in order that Brereton could sit nearer the host - Alex -from then on Brereton crowed that Monty was " moved down toward the salt". After which he then made friends with both Tedder and Coningham - who were NOT good friends of Monty.....as they both conspired to get rid of him in the July '44 ! It was not until all three airmen moved to Eisenhowers staff at Algiers - and Harry Broadhurst took over that the "Cab Rank" of air support was developed for the Left hook around the Mareth Line towards El Hamma- and again with the last battle from Medjez to Tunis / Cap Bon.This appeared to work well in the NWE area ! So I would say that perhaps a bit of political jealousy entered the situation for the Market Garden operation......but then - what do I know - I didn't even hear of that operation as on that same day - I was lying wounded all that day beside my knocked out Churchill tank hoping that someone would pick me up when the sun went down - they did indeed and here I am along with Sapper Cheers
The plan was Monty's, The buck if there is one, stops with him. It failed..So what.... Do you stop fighting when things get rough, sit and your hands and wait for someone else to do it??? No matter the opposition... that golden chance had to be attempted...And everyone involved knew it. That is why we drove on, no matter what the cost. Sapper Ok sapper, here is the German view. Arnhem was strategic in the defence of the German Front with the town lying on the last natural barrier - The Rhine River. When Operation 'Market Garden' started, the Germans knew very quickly into the battle that the bridges were a key objective of the allied plans and as such threw every available reinforcement into Arnhem. Waffen-SS, Luftwaffe, Heer, Kriegsmarine and Arbeitsdienst fought side by side against the elite British Airborne Division and Polish Paratroopers and after 10 days of fighting, they won the day. This of course was not without loss as the Germans suffered heavy casualties in the process. This battle was a hollow victory as the common German soldier knew the war was already lost in September 1944. Very little research has been done on the German side of the battle with only a handful of references being printed. However what the Germans were able to achieve in this battle against seasoned professionals needs to be written. Obersturmbannführer Walter Harzer, commander of the 9th SS Panzer Division 'Hohenstaufen' after the battle, said it best: "It is with personal pride that I regard this German victory, because it was achieved not by regular units, but by railway workers, Arbeitsdienst and Luftwaffe personnel as well, who had never been trained for infantry work and were actually unsuitable for house-to-house fighting." It is a pleasure to present to you - 'Defending Arnhem'. Destroyed Vehicle Database Defending Arnhem © 2007 Defending Arnhem © 2007
Jobee - just as a PS to my last rant - Ike gave the nod to Monty to "do it" - promising FULL supplies - he didn't as he gave a huge amount to Patton for his push.....it should also be remembered that Ike had only been Field Commander for a few days at that time - and some felt that this act lengthened the war by some six months ! Had Ahrnem succeeded - then it MIGHT have been all over by Christmas and not May '45 ! Cheers
Jobee - all very well to quote the losers - but the German situation was helped enormously by the fact that both Model and Bittrich had ALL of the plans that same night - courtesy of a dis-obedient US major who took the plan into the air - was shot down - and the plans picked up and sent to Model's H.Q. Bittrich was all set to blow up most bridges ! Cheers
Not in my view you are not Tom, far from it..... You mate know all about what war is like and dealt with it Sorry about the camera mate....Blame Sheila..I do when I can get away with it. Cheers Brian
What is your request, keep it clean. If you could read the thread in the link below and write a piece on that I would be most grateful. http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/1940/24549-battle-massacre-wormhout-28th-may-1940-a.html Regards Andy
Fine give an idiot tanks against infantry, and even he can win. But intelligence must have told them the tanks were there, there is no way photos could have missed a tank division. Does anyone know what Brereton thought,did,said. Was he on sick leave or something.
See what I mean, all debate on OMG just disolves into a blame game. I find the whole OMG operation a turn off. As I said the most over debated topic on ww2 each time the exact same ground is covered. Boring...
It is far from boring for those of us that lost good mates in that desperate headlong rush Northwards. No supplies the road cut behind us sapper
Owen - I do think that others of us also think it's boring - but I always thought that a forum such as this was to help educate those people who don't know what it was all about and strangely enough we do have what appears to be a procession of newcomers - who were NOT there in those times - and wish to learn all about WW2- ergo Dresden - Market Garden - Cassino - Anzio - even the desert struggles will ALWAYS come up as being a part of that great conflict - it's called History which does not appear to be taught at many schools to-day - and I am quite sure that people like Sapper- Gerry - Ron - Niccar and many other veteran members try to assist in this seemingly great desire to learn - thus we bore on - and on ! As you yourself tend to drone on about your visit to Anzio and Cassino at times - what was your intention to go to those places - if not to learn ? Cheers Now then Jobee - as I understand it - Brereton was NOT on the sick list - he was swanning around with another American General in viewing another potential operation - in other words as we called it - "dodging the column" knowing full well that there was an impending disaster about to happen ! Cheers
See what I mean, all debate on OMG just disolves into a blame game. I find the whole OMG operation a turn off. As I said the most over debated topic on ww2 each time the exact same ground is covered. Boring... I think this thread more than proves that not only is OMG not boring but also that in this thread it is most certainly not the case that the same ground is covered. http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/books-films-tv-radio/18186-arnhem-1st-british-airborne-division-op-market-garden-book-collection.html and to add recent developments in this thread promise much fresh information on a very little covered Battalion during the battle http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/airborne/26221-11th-battalion.html
See what I mean, all debate on OMG just disolves into a blame game. I find the whole OMG operation a turn off. As I said the most over debated topic on ww2 each time the exact same ground is covered. Boring... I had family involved in OMG, so it certainly isn't a turn off me. I have learnt so much about my grandfather who fought bravely at the bridge since joining the forum. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think you made your feelings quite clear in your first post.
