Dieppe Raid, Operation Jubilee

quite,

stand at Puys and even my totally non interested, 100% non military minded wife said " What **** decided to attack THIS place " !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????????

 

I had the same reaction when I was there several years ago

 

Today is the anniversay of the ill-fated landings at Dieppe.

Wikipedia devotes some space to the subject of German advance knowledge of the raid:

Debate over German foreknowledge
First-hand accounts and memoirs of many Canadian veterans who documented their experiences on the shores of Dieppe remark about the preparedness of the German defences as if they knew of the raid ahead of time. Commanding officer Lt. Colonel Labatt testified to having seen markers used for mortar practice, which appeared to have recently been placed, on the beach.[19] Furthermore, upon touching down on the Dieppe shore, the landing ships were immediately shelled with the utmost precision as troops began exiting. The recent target practice and subsequent precision shelling is indicative of a well-prepared army. In another instance Major C. E. Page, while interrogating a German soldier, found out that 4 machine-gun battalions were brought in specifically in anticipation of a raid. However, the most compelling information supporting German foreknowledge resides with the numerous accounts of interrogated German prisoners, German captors, and French citizens who all conveyed to Canadians that the Germans had been preparing for the anticipated Allied landings for weeks.

I have never seen any definitive historical discussion to prove or disprove that the Germans were 'expecting' the raid. In fact, that part tends to get short attention in most accounts. Has anyone seen a serious investigaton of the German foreknowledge?

 

I cannot say that I have ever read that the Germans were forwarned.

However it makes sense to prepare defences against an invasion and laying down indication markers for distance would be normal practice.

When The British feared an invasion, the defences were prepared and I am sure the distances would have been set for mortar and artillery fire etc.

Just a thought.

Regards
Tom

 

Jon,

Puys is one of those places where you 'have to see it to believe it'. No amount of reading can prepare you for the visual impact of looking up from that beach and the 'fishbowl' effect created from the surrounding heights.

I had the privilege of being there with a Royal Regiment veteran who was no less bitter about the event after 65 years. He remains angry over the useless waste of good men. He fired a Bren from that beach until both wounds and no ammunition incapacitated him. He is adamant that they had no chance whatsoever of getting off that beach. The pillbox in the the attached photo was one of many which could enfilade the entire beach.

Your wife clearly saw that place in the same way everyone else has......except the planners!

 

I cannot say that I have ever read that the Germans were forwarned.

However it makes sense to prepare defences against an invasion and laying down indication markers for distance would be normal practice.

When The British feared an invasion, the defences were prepared and I am sure the distances would have been set for mortar and artillery fire etc.

Just a thought.

Regards
Tom

There were rumours that the Germans had prior knowledge but like you I have never seen that claim substantiated in any way. As you correctly point out, there are standard practices any defensive force will undertake as normal preparation.

 

and when I pointed out to here the enveloping cliffs had retreated considerably since 1942 so in fact it was less of a fairground duck range today than in 1942 !

 

Canuck,

Many thanks for posting the pics.

Randy

 

Canuck,
This was part of CP Stacey's report #83 on Operation Jubillee.
"This operation was most carefully planned in advance of every detail.
Before employment of Canadian military forces was approved by Lieutenant - General McNaughton, he had satisfied himself that the objectives were worth while and that the means available were likely to be adequate for the task in hand. Detailed planing of the operation began on the 8th May last. The planning was long and exacting, involving repeated conferences between senior officers of the three fighting services, and preparation of a very careful administrative scheme. The planning of the enterprise, so far as the Canadian military forces were concerned was directed by General Robbers, the Military Force Commander.

The officers charged with planning the operation had at their disposal a great mass of information relating to the Dieppe area collected from many sources. The proposed operation was checked on a large-scale model of the area to be raided, and when the plans were complete a most thorough understanding had been established between the three services. etc etc"

One can only assume that from Mountbatten to McNaughton to the planners of the operation, that each was a member of the CNIB. For non Canadian members of this forum, CNIB stands for Canadian National Institute for the Blind.

Thanks to Ramacal for the link.www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-...-rqgmc-eng.asp

 

It should also be noted that a chap called Montgomery was initially called to command this operation - he didn't like it and asked that it be cancelled owing to the fact that security had been compromised......it was - and he was then sent out to command the 8th Army at El Alamein.....on Aug 12th.

Mountbatten was then on the Chief of Staffs committee and felt he had to DO something to promote his own new command of Joint services -so he had the Dieppe thing reactivated - so it was an ego thing - then he lied that it was a succesful operation.....then he came up with the iceberg aircraft carrier.....then he tried to fire Bill Slim...the man was a menace !

Cheers

 

The photographs show the three tiers of bunkers which the defender were able to inflict murderous fire on those landing at the mouth of the ravine..Postwar,the ravine has been developed with modern housing and I would think that it would more accurate to describe it in 1942 as a gully.It may have been similar to the gully at Bruneval which has not seen the same type of development to the present day.

The very house at the top apparently used to be owned by the Brition at one time.

 

I had heard of the rummours that the Germans knew we were coming but have never seen anything in print to support the fact. There is a book on Dieppe to do with the Mountbatten involvement refering to the fact of Unauthorised Action.

 

if they knew the canadians were coming or not it would have made no difference, it was an impossible task, a WW1 style attack with added twists of impossibility

 

Jonheyworth
Did you mean a classic case of we the willing led by the unknowing their blunders to retrive?

 

I think Whitaker is on the money with JUBILEE being a political act to silence the US and USSR who were both pressing for the opening of the Second Front. Not the nicest way to do it but there was no doubt that invading France was much easier to say than do.

Regarding reinforcements: Whitaker quotes reports that von Rundstedt reinforced 302 Div in July and August because "the Russians were pressing strongly for a Second Front". The question is: was the whole coast reinforced, or just Dieppe? Did they have prior knowledge of a raid, or that raid?

 

our nieghbour when I was a wee lad, was a dieppe vetern. didn't talk alot about it. He did mention he landed with every German on the beach shooting at him. hid behind a disabled tank the whole day and then running like hell for the landing craft when it was time to go. He didn't remember firng a shot all day. later served in Sicily, Italy and Northren France/ Germany/holland

 

Bernhart -
he must have served with the RCR - they were not usually found hiding and Strome Galloway would not have been impressed
Cheers

 

read Strome's book. Sounds like he was quite the character. just a note on the RCr My brother and son are both current members

 

Of the 554 Royals who landed at Puys (26 Officers & 528 ORs) only 64 (12%) returned to England and 37 of those were wounded, two of them fatally.

 

Bernhart-
then both are with a great regiment with a lot of history - Strome wasn't the only character - all of 1st Division in Italy were characters - especially the Seaforths ....great lads...

Cheers