3855842 Lance Serjeant James Edward GREEN, 1st Bn., SWB: POW

Moved from Army Number Block Allocations


Lance Serjeant JE GREEN, 3855842, 1st Bn., SWB. I BELIEVE this man could well be James Edward Green, b Wigan, 1918, died Sawtry, 1977. If it is, I used to live next door to him as a youngster and one of his sons is a friend of mine. Jim never spoke about his war, but I am now trying to piece it together. I have found the Casualty Records for L/S Green which suggests he was reported Missing in the Western Desert in June 1942; reported Captured in September 1942; and Reported Freed in 1945. His son is abroad for the next two weeks, when he returns I will suggest he gets his father's SR but would like to establish if possible that L/Sjt Green's record IS the one to apply for.

James Edward Green was the son of James Edward And Hettie Green, nee Kirkman. Another researcher has suggested he may have been held at Stalag VII-A, Moosburg an der Isar, Bavaria.

Can anyone shed any light as to a likely enlistment date or how to confirm the Stalag VII-A incarceration, please?

 

I have 3,855,805 enlisting in the Loyal Regiment 12/3/36 so I'd say shortly after that, Gelert can probably get a closer match

 

Here is his liberation questionnaire giving his enlistment date as 16/6/37 so a bit later than I thought - it also has his address which may be useful for you and his POW camps, confirming VIIA - and the 1918 birth date matches

 

Thanks for posting the Liberation Questionnaire Alastair.

Mention of interrogation at Gestapo HQ Rome October? 1943 and the 2 month break in POW captivity Sept to Nov 1943 suggests to me that he escaped whilst being transported to Germany and that he was at large in Italy for a few weeks?

Forum member vitellino may be able to assist further.

I will ask a MOD to spin the posts about Sgt Green in to a stand-alone topic,

Steve

 

I can't read the liberation report (too small) but have found him in the Al Celio hospital in Rome in WO 392/21 (Imperial Prisoners of War in Italian Hands. August 1943) . He would have escaped at the Armistice (8th September) and would have been picked up by the Gestapo who would then have sent him on the Germany.

May have something else to add- if so, will edit.

Vitellino

Added to say that WO 392/1 (date September 1944) shows him as being present in Stalag VIIA Moosburg.

 

As good as I can make out ...

PART I.
GENERAL QUESTIONNAIRE FOR BRITISH/AMERICAN EX-PRISONERS OF WAR.

1. No. 3855842
RANK - SGT
SURNAME - GREEN
CHRISTIAN NAMES - JAMES EDWARD
DECORATIONS -

2. UNIT (ARMY) - 1 Bn South Wales Borderers

3. DIVISION (ARMY) - 20th Division

4. DATE OF BIRTH - 30 August 1918

5. DATE OF ENLISTMENT - June 10th [or 16th] 1937

6. CIVILIAN TRADE OR PROFESSION -

7. PRIVATE ADDRESS - MRS HETTIE GREEN, 6 WRIGHT ST. (WEST) HOWRICK, NR BOLTON, LANCS

8. PLACE AND DATE OF ORIGINAL CAPTURE - LIBYA, 16th June 1942

9. WERE YOU WOUNDED WHEN CAPTURED? -

10. MAIN CAMPS OR HOSPITALS IN WHICH IMPRISONED
Camp No. / Location / From / Till
CAMPO 54 ITALY 30/7/42 - 20/9/43
STALAG VIIA MOOSBURG 20/11/43 - 27/4/44

11. WERE YOU IN A WORKING CAMP?
Location / From/ Till / Nature of Work
MUNICH 27/4/44 - 20/4/45 NCO i/c BARRACK

12. DID YOU SUFFER FROM ANY SERIOUS ILLNESSES WHILE A P/W?
Nature of Illness / Cause / Duration
-
12 b. DID YOU RECEIVE ADEQUATE MEDICAL TREATMENT?
-


GENERAL QUESTIONNAIRE PART II TOP SECRET

1. No. 3855842
RANK - SGT
SURNAME - GREEN
CHRISTIAN NAMES - JAMES EDWARD


2. LECTURES before Capture:
( a ) Were you lectured in your unit on how to behave the event of capture? (State where, when and by whom).
-
( b ) Were you lectured on escape and evasion? (State where, when and by whom.
-

3. INTERROGATION after capture:
Were you specially interrogated by the enemy? (State where, when and methods employed by enemy).
GESTAPO H.Q. ROME 11/10/43

4. ESCAPES attempted:
Did yo make any attempted or partly successful escapes? (Give details of each attempt accurately, stating where, when, method employed, names of your companions, wherein when recaptured and by whom. Were you physically fit? What happened to your companions?)
-

5. SABOTAGE
Did you do any sabotage or destruction of enemy factory plant, war material, communications, etc, when employed on working-parties or during escape? (Give details, places and dates.)
-

6. COLLABORATION with enemy:
Do you know of any British or American personnel who collaborated with the enemy or in any way helped the enemy agains other Allied Prisoners of War? (Give details, names of persons concerned, camps, dates and nature of collaboration or help given to enemy).
-

7. WAR CRIMES
If you have any information or evidence of bad treatment by the enemy to yourself or to others, or knowledge of any enemy violation of Geneva Convention you should ask for a copy of "Form Q" on which to make your statement.
(NOTE: Form Q is a separate form inviting information on "War Crimes" and describes the kind of offences coning under this title.)



GENERAL QUESTIONNAIRE PART II TOP SECRET
(continued)

8. Have you any other matter of any kind you wish to bring to notice?
-


SECURITY UNDERTAKING
I fully realise that all information relating the matters covered by the questions in Part II. are of a highly secret and official nature.

I have had explained to me and fully understand that under Defence Regulations or U.S.A.R. 380-5 I am forbidden to publish or communicate any information concerning these matters.

Date 12/5/45
Signature J. E. Green

 

PG 54 figures, as the sick men being held there who couldn't be treated in the camp hospital were sent to Rome to Al Celio. I don't know why he didn't list the hospital, but the escape date is interesting. He didn't escape from the hospital at the Armistice but twelve days after, on 20 September, hence he was at large in Rome from then until his interrogation by the Gestapo on 11 October.

I'm not surprised he never talked about the war!

 

Name: James Green . Date of Birth: 30/08/1918 . Place of Birth: England . Service:... | The National Archives
Reference: WO 416/149/147
Name: James Green.
Date of Birth: 30/08/1918.
Place of Birth: England.
Service: [British Army].
Rank: Lance Sergeant.
Regiment/Unit/Squadron: [The South Wales Borderers].
Service Number: 3855842.
Date of Capture: [unspecified].
Theatre of Capture: [unspecified].
Camp Name/Number: Stalag VIIA Moosburg.
PoW number: 126839.
Date of Death: [unspecified].
Number of Photographs: 0.
Number of Fingerprints: 0.
Number of X-rays: 0.
Number of Cards: 1.

 

OP or Sgt Green’s son ought to consider applying to Red Cross for copies of their papers in January 2024 via this link -

Requests for information about people held during Spanish Civil War or Second World War: Quarterly limit reached

It is a free service. Applicant will see an online application form pop up as the application window opens. It needs to be completed speedily as the application window will close within 90 minutes due to the quarterly limit being reached.

ICRC send a reply by email - usually within 2 months. It should record all the main camps and hospitals he passed through and may include a copy of the “capture card” he was allowed to send to relatives on arrival in his first camp.

Steve

 

Afternoon,

There is a copy of his German POW card in the National Archive here: Name: James Green . Date of Birth: 30/08/1918 . Place of Birth: England . Service:... | The National Archives its not online so you will have to order a copy or visit to see it, but it does state Stalag VIIA.

There are a few more links surrounding him and his PoW status:

Liberation Questionnaire (Better copy) - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imagevie...&_phsrc=MSX5&_phstart=successSource&pId=80305

Both of these prisoner lists show him at 7A:
WO 392 POW Lists 1943-1945 (11: Imperial Prisoners of War Held in Germany or German-Occupied Territory: British Army) - https://www.fold3.com/sub-image/634382039?terms=3855842,green

WO 392 POW Lists 1943-1945 (1: Imperial Prisoners of War Held in Germany or German-Occupied Territory: British Army) - https://www.fold3.com/sub-image/634232502?terms=3855842,green

This one shows him at camp A.C.:
WO 392 POW Lists 1943-1945 (21: Imperial Prisoners of War Held in Italy, Italian-Occupied Territory: British & Commonwealth Army) - https://www.fold3.com/sub-image/634522905?terms=3855842,green

UK, WWII, British and Allied Prisoners of War held in Germany, 1945 - Green, J E in UK, WWII, British and Allied Prisoners of War held in Germany, 1945 - Fold3

UK, Imperial Prisoners Of War Held In Italy During 1943 - Green, J E in UK, Imperial Prisoners Of War Held In Italy During 1943 - Fold3

UK, WWII, Daily Reports: Missing, Dead, Wounded and POWs, 1939-1947 (7 Sept 1942) - Green, J E in UK, WWII, Daily Reports: Missing, Dead, Wounded and POWs, 1939-1947 - Fold3

UK, WWII, Daily Reports: Missing, Dead, Wounded and POWs, 1939-1947 (12 June 1945) - Green, J E in UK, WWII, Daily Reports: Missing, Dead, Wounded and POWs, 1939-1947 - Fold3

UK, Welsh Regiments, 1899-1942 - Green, J E in UK, Welsh Regiments, 1899-1942 - Fold3

UK, Welsh Regiments, 1899-1942 - Green, J E in UK, Welsh Regiments, 1899-1942 - Fold3

UK, Welsh Regiments, 1899-1942 - Green, J E in UK, Welsh Regiments, 1899-1942 - Fold3

UK, Welsh Regiments, 1899-1942 - Green, J E in UK, Welsh Regiments, 1899-1942 - Fold3

 

AB64, Tullybrone, Vitellino, dbf, and Gareth Smith. To say I am rather overwhelmed by what I have seen above is understating it. It will take me some time to process all the information you've provided and I know his son will be as amazed as I am at what his reticent father did during his army career. Jim was quite a burly northerner, with a deep voice, and was a keen supporter of the RBL and the operation of the Ex-Servicemen's Club. However, I will always remember him for the way he (almost single-handedly) set up the Youth Club in Sawtry, which was THE only place teenagers in Sawtry and the other nearby villages could (legally) gather together. As well as the regular Youth Club evenings Jim also arranged many other events for the benefit of the community, and his death at a relatively young age was felt by many.

My sincere thanks to you all, and I hope you won't be offended by this single 'group' message of gratitude rather than responding to each of your individual posts.

 

Camp AC was the Italian military hospital Al Celio (or to be correct, Il Celio) in Rome. WO 392/21