So everyone take a deep breath before they reply to this.. What if Hitler had won every battle, overthrown every goverment where he intended to, where do you think we would be today under German leadership? I know what many of the snap responses will be but think about if you have not already, what do you think we would all be doing today that would be different and what would attitudes to ordinary day things change. It a good subject to which I have had may conversations in the past, I like to bring it once in a while to hear other views.
There would be no internet, no forums, no culture, no art, no nothing except for brute blond giants bred and born in specialised whore-houses. As Churchill put it: "would sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age".
Another thing that would be lost is our Sense of Humour,which around the world is so unique to us,something that is so British !!. Steven
There'd be a Central European government, a single European currency, a single European army (erm,that sounds familiar! ),and, possibly, a "Cold War" still continuing (probably between the USA and Europe). B.
I was thinking about this again last night during my break. Something else we would have lost is our freedom to complain/demonstrate against our own government without being persecuted for doing so. We are also incredibly tolerant as a nation of all sorts of minority groups from a variety of ethnic backgrounds.That also is something i feel would have disappeared or to be more precise,never have happened in the first place. Just two more things that would have affected us. Steven
Did you knew that marshal Piłsudski went to France in 1933. He had a proposal for France. A prevention move against Hiltler. Why? Well Piłsudski was smart, he's my favorite leader. He simply didn't liked this fanatical Hitler. So he decided for this move when the Germany was still weak. Guess how French Defence minister respond ? What if there was no Hitler ? The answer is simple: Command&Conquer series Probably another Poland-USSR war and another and another and another.....
My main thoughts were with freedom of choice, speech and freedom to move unabated. There would be no internet, at least not for public use in the way it is now, papers would still be required to go anywhere and..... Hitlers vision of a master race? <_<
Originally posted by Lee Wisener@Apr 21 2004, 03:19 PM Hitlers vision of a master race? <_< See what you can find out about Elizabeth Nietzshe's South American experiment of the 1890's. This could give an inkling of how a "pure,master race"could have turned out!!! (By 1947, they were so "backward" and interbred that even Eichmann couldn't stand being amongst them for long while he was on the run. He also found their views a little too extreme even for him!!!) B.
I need to get some reading material for this subject, I read a bit about it a while back and could not believe some of it, this has rekindled my interest.
Originally posted by BAYERNWALD@Apr 21 2004, 03:54 PM See what you can find out about Elizabeth Nietzshe's South American experiment of the 1890's. This could give an inkling of how a "pure,master race"could have turned out!!! (By 1947, they were so "backward" and interbred that even Eichmann couldn't stand being amongst them for long while he was on the run. He also found their views a little too extreme even for him!!!) B. Is anything about this in print ??.What you talk about here,i have never heard about.This i would like to read about !!. Steven
Originally posted by STEVEN+Apr 22 2004, 11:33 AM-->(STEVEN @ Apr 22 2004, 11:33 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-BAYERNWALD@Apr 21 2004, 03:54 PM See what you can find out about Elizabeth Nietzshe's South American experiment of the 1890's. This could give an inkling of how a "pure,master race"could have turned out!!! (By 1947, they were so "backward" and interbred that even Eichmann couldn't stand being amongst them for long while he was on the run. He also found their views a little too extreme even for him!!!) B. Is anything about this in print ??.What you talk about here,i have never heard about.This i would like to read about !!. Steven [/b]There is (somewhere, unfortunately, I can't remember where i saw it though!). This was also the subject of a "Timewatch" programme on UK TV a couple of years ago. B.
This subject has been tackled by greater brains than myself (and lesser ones, of course), in everything from doctoral dissertations to comic books. I remember once seeing a comic book in which Superman went into an alternate universe to free occupied America from the Nazis. I have one novel on my shelf in which the Nazis march into New York City after conquering Britain and lunging a year later into New England. It's an interesting book with a good deal of color. The Nazis ally with the Mafia to strip the Jews of their wealth and loot the city, and an American agent allies with the Irish Republican Army adherents to orchestrate a rebellion against the Nazis. A more realistic view is in "Fatherland," by Robert Harris. In 1964, as the Greater German Reich and its "allies" in the European Community prepare to celebrate Hitler's birthday, a disaffected German detective investigates a series of murders of aging Nazi bigshots that seem to be connected. In doing so, he stumbles on Germany's greatest secret: the Final Solution of the Jewish Question. It presents a picture of a creaking German dictatorship, besieged by paranoia, threatened by its own youth (which is all listening to music by a bunch of mop-topped Englishmen), its economy drained, hoping that detente with US President Joseph Kennedy will save the Reich. I think we'd be living in an extremely dictatorial super-state, with plenty of regulations, omnipotent and brutal rulers, vast swaths of corruption, leaders living like oriental potentates, the masses living in poverty. Not much comfort there.
If hitler conquered.... POLAND: 38 million dead, the result to planned by Hitler during the war and said the extermination of the Polish people would be done by 1975 USSR:40 Million dead, 40 million to be sent to slave labor camps. The Baltic states:not sure on this one, but it is very hard to tell the differnece between a baltic and a slav... No here is one great question, if Hitler conquered Africa...... Cannot even accept the result of this "war" The United States:The "Untermensch" would be exterminated like in Europe. The Western allies:France,Britain,Belgium,Norway,Luxembourg,Switzerland,Denmark,Sweden Untermensch to be exterminated, the so-called "Normal" men and women get to live their life.
Harry Turtledove's "In the Presence of Mine Enemies" gives a good and realistic example of what would happen. The story is from the perspective of a family of Jews trying to pass theselves off as Aryans in Berlin (year 2004 interestingly enough) order to survive. But for the purposes of this thread: **** SPOILERS**** We have bases on the moon, went to Mars. USSR doesn exist, most of asia is Japanese Italy has most of africa and middle east the arabs were exterminated the indians (India) were considered aryan German has colonies thorugh siberia, central asia and... Canada The eastern USA is occupied and the US pays huge war reparations and still continues. As alluded in earlier posts the "inferiors" were exterminated. What the average german civy does in year 2004 in this book is about what normal people do think 1936 Germany but with modern conveniances. The thing about the book is that it starts to go on a parallel to the collapse of the USSR with Germany getting a new Futhrer who calls for free elections to elect a new reichstag but the SS tries to mount of coup but fails when the berlin Gautlieghter steps onto a tank and calls for Berliners to rise up and face off the tanks.
One thing is that the Germans would not be occupying anywhere. They would have to put in a friendly government and hope the sympathizers within the country would rule it. Very much like the USSR in the 50's-80's. The thing is as has been proved this is very difficult in the long term. It would also have been nearly impossible for the Nazi's to invade the US. If the US were looking at around 2 million dead to invade Japan then the Germans would have faced worse. The strain of maintaining forces in the US and USSR would have been too much. Instead I would also go for the cold war with US against Germany. But what about the nuclear question? How close would Germany have been to getting the bomb? Would the US have used them against Germany?
Originally posted by Cheshire Yeomanry@Jul 11 2005, 01:25 AM Impossible to answer with any clarity. To subjective and to many variables [post=36310]Quoted post[/post] My dad used to call "what if"........"Hindsight with no Foresight", a waste of good pencil & paper.
Originally posted by spidge+Jul 11 2005, 01:13 AM-->(spidge @ Jul 11 2005, 01:13 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Cheshire Yeomanry@Jul 11 2005, 01:25 AM Impossible to answer with any clarity. To subjective and to many variables [post=36310]Quoted post[/post] My dad used to call "what if"........"Hindsight with no Foresight", a waste of good pencil & paper. [post=36331]Quoted post[/post] [/b] I can understand that thought, but I would add that exploring WI's helps explain and inform how and why certain orders etc were issued, and gives a very clear picture about how close certain events were from turning out 100% different to there actual conclusion. Any good WI must have clear and attainable guidelines, otherwise evry WI would include UFO's etc
