The Third Reich in Colour

Discussion in 'Axis Units' started by Jba45ww2, Jan 16, 2019.

  1. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Just about to do the same search.

    It looks to me as if some earlier casualties in the Blitzkreig were removed and buried in Germany.These would be those who deaths occurred close to the German frontier.Evidence of this practice is in the Cologne Southern Cemetery where there are a large number of burial dated from the beginning of the offensive.Similarly there are a large number of German deaths in Cologne Southern which must have occurred on German soil and are dated late 1944.

    Bourdon was one of the consolidated cemeteries established after the war with German dead brought in from the Nord and Pas de Calais departments together with the Somme department where the cemetery is located.Over 22000 dead are interred at Bourdon and it was not inaugurated until September 1967.

    The group listed as deaths in the Abbeville location is not far from Bourdon and both lie on the River Somme.The individuals have been buried as a group, a practice which sometimes goes amiss on reburials.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
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  2. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Looking further at the grave markers indicating "List".I would think that the fallen were part of the German 12th Army commanded by Field Marshal List who were heavily involved in the fall of France in 1940.

    The Wehrmacht had a practice of designating their units by the Army commander in the manner shown....hence the grave markers.

    Abundance examples shown of the German belt buckle with the insignia "Got Mit Uns"...yet we though God was with us.
  3. steelers708

    steelers708 Junior Member

    The title 'list' was an Honour title given to the 199th Infanterie Regiment. It was the successor to the Königlich Bayerisches Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 16, named "List" after its commander Oberst Julius List, of 6. Königlich Bayerische Reserve-Division during the First World War. It also happened to be the regiment that Hitler had served in in WWI.
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  4. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Slightly off topic, I know, but thought of this while watching They Shall Not Grow Old last night, as one ex-Tommy described how they trumped a German psywar attempt with a sign that said something along the lines of 'we've got mittens, too'!
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  5. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Correct.......Hitler's Great War service is recorded as being with the 16 th Bavarian Infantry (List Regiment) after being rejected by the Austrian military authorities as being "too weak and unfit to bear arms"

    Apparently he wrote to the King and asked to serve in the Imperial Army and was assigned to the List Regiment.

    Was Wilhelm List related to Julius List,maybe they were brothers.
  6. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Bourdon Soldatenfriedhof layout as of completion in the summer of 1967.

    Block 27...centre right.

    Somme Bourdon Soldatenfriedhof layout 001.jpg Somme Bourdon Soldatenfriedhof layout 001.jpg
  7. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Somme Bourdon Soldatenfriedhof.View looking north 001.jpg Bourdon Soldatenfriedhof.View looking north...grass appeared to be longer than the photograph when I visited some years ago.
  8. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Better in colour. Bourdon Soldatenfriedhof.View looking north in colour 001.jpg
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  9. Jba45ww2

    Jba45ww2 Patron Patron

    I just finished up another tray of the B&W slides. They definitely are more of a military theme then the coloured ones. The group also includes some more graves from the List Regiment. I did some minor enhancements and as always welcome any comments. I also wanted to thank everyone who have commented/offered information regarding the post. The help has been invaluable in unlocking some of the mystery surrounding the grouping.
    IMG_0004z.jpg IMG_0027z.jpg
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  10. Dave55

    Dave55 Very Senior Member

    Just great! Thanks for going through the scanning and posting.
  11. Dave55

    Dave55 Very Senior Member

  12. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Nachname: Pröbstl
    Vorname: Jakob
    Dienstgrad: Gefreiter
    Geburtsdatum: 26.02.1914
    Geburtsort: Alxing
    Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 01.06.1940
    Todes-/Vermisstenort: Abbeville
    Jakob Pröbstl ruht auf der Kriegsgräberstätte in Bourdon.
    Endgrablage: Block 27 Reihe 12 Grab 457
    Photo -

    Nachname: Kuglmeier
    Vorname: Franz
    Dienstgrad: Obergefreiter
    Geburtsdatum: 09.09.1910
    Geburtsort: Pilsting
    Todes-/Vermisstendatum :01.06.1940
    Todes-/Vermisstenort: Abbeville
    Franz Kuglmeier ruht auf der Kriegsgräberstätte in Bourdon.
    Endgrablage: Block 27 Reihe 15 Grab 595
    In the link a Pilsting war memorial lists Johann Kuglmeier died 1/6/1940 - might be same man though Pilsting, Kreis Dingolfing/Landau, Bayern - Onlineprojekt Gefallenendenkmäler

    Nachname: Scharold
    Vorname: Hanns
    Dienstgrad: Major
    Geburtsdatum: 24.11.1898
    Geburtsort: Irlahüll
    Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 05.06.1940
    Todes-/Vermisstenort: Raum Mont de Caubert
    Hanns Scharold ruht auf der Kriegsgräberstätte in Bourdon.
    Endgrablage: Block 27 Reihe 8 Grab 303

    Nachname: Sturm
    Vorname: Isidor
    Dienstgrad: Oberschütze
    Geburtsdatum: 28.10.1913
    Geburtsort: Amhofen
    Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 05.06.1940
    Todes-/Vermisstenort: Villers sur Mareuil
    Isidor Sturm ruht auf der Kriegsgräberstätte in Bourdon.
    Endgrablage: Block 27 Reihe 12 Grab 456
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  13. jimbop

    jimbop Well-Known Member

    really interesting thread.
    hope someone can find out who these are and how they fared in the rest of the war.
  14. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Recognised this immediately.It's on the right bank (north side) of the Seine on the D 81.The monument is built into the rockface which forms the river bank of the Seine at this point...the D 81 being between the rockface and the Seine.

    Stayed at Caudebec overnight on a trip to the Gironde in 2004 and have a few photographs somewhere,pre digital.Nice hotel as I recollect.

    I think the massed group in front of the building with the car in the background has a look of Caudebec. Cannot make out any detail of the shop to advance identity further.
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  15. Marcus H

    Marcus H Member

    I just wonder if this could be a picture of a Knights Cross recipient and he’s possibly holding the initial notification of the award in his hands too? Perhaps even a higher grade bestowal to his existing Knights Cross - additional grade devices attached to the Knights Cross being the Oak Leaves or Oak Leaves & Swords.

    Prior to the official award ceremony of the award, if the intended was still at sea or in the field they were commonly presented with a somewhat fashioned representation of the medal from the men - in celebration and recognition.

    Thus, such ‘knocked-up’ crosses were from existing photographs prone to a degree of ‘artistic licence,’ so the Swords and Oak Leaves could be an embellishment on this occasion, I don’t know?

    From a quick Google search there are a few Schneider named recipients of the Kinghts Cross in c.1941-1942.

    I’ll do a bit more digging and see what I can find.



    Attached Files:

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  16. steelers708

    steelers708 Junior Member

    Only four Schneiders were awarded the Ritterkreuz in 1942 and only one of them got the Eichenlaub, but not until 1944, also none of the four match the date in the picture. The four along with the date of the award were:
    Hauptmann Albert Schneider 23.12.42
    Leutnant Alfred Schneider 7.6.42 - KIA 3.6.42
    Oberfeldwebel Josef Schneider 27.6.42, Eichenlaub 10.2.44
    Oberleutnant Rudolf Schneider 4.10.42
  17. hucks216

    hucks216 Member

    It looks like a unit made 'joke' award and based on the image of the soldier in the middle of the cross it could relate to the toilet or his backside.
  18. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    I have looked at this image a few times to ascertain if there are any clues as to an explanation.

    The only thing I can say is there appears to be the date.... day and month on the left hand side,ie. 1.4 and the year on the right hand side,ie....1942.

    From that I think it could be an All Fools Day celebration,ie,1st April 1942 reflecting the humour of the individual in that he is awarding himself a medal.
  19. Jba45ww2

    Jba45ww2 Patron Patron

    I tried to focus on just the middle of the cross and clean it up as much as possible
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  20. Jba45ww2

    Jba45ww2 Patron Patron

    I just completed scanning another tray of slides. Trying to understand the significand's of the pictures of the fishing trawlers. I am assuming they are being directed back in by the Germans? Any comments/idea would be appreciated. This tray also appears to be a mix of France and Russia and includes the first photo of wounded soldiers.
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