Naval Personnel Buried On Shore, But Listed On Naval Memorials

Discussion in 'Non-Commemorated War Dead' started by chrisharley9, Aug 3, 2016.

  1. Shannon Craig

    Shannon Craig New Member

    Ok , thank you I understand now . I'm new to this well genealogy, what an amazing thing you're doing chris ! Thanks again
     
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  2. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    KERR, EDGAR BOWES
    Rank:
    Engine Room Artificer 1st Class
    Service No:
    P/M24738
    Date of Death:
    23/02/1945
    Regiment/Service:
    Royal Navy
    H.M.S. Excellent
    Grave Reference:
    Sec. H.H. Grave 10.
    Cemetery:
    UPHALL CEMETERY
    Commemoration Moved From Portsmouth Naval Memorial.
     
  3. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Lieut-CommanderGARRETT, WILLIAM JOHN
    Died 21/06/1945

    H.M.S. President II.
    Royal Navy

    At present listed on Chatham Naval Memorial his grave has been found at Bridgetown & Berry Pomeroy Church Cemetery, Devon.
     
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  4. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Commemoration now moved from Chatham Naval Memorial.
     
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  5. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Commemoration moved to Corner Brook Anglican Township Cemetery, Canada, Newfoundland and Labrador. On further investigation it was found that his body had been exhumed & then reburied at Corner Brook.
     
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  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Matthew Joseph Spencer
    1919–1944
    BIRTH JUNE 2, 1919 • Burgeo, Newfoundland, Canada
    DEATH 24 JAN 1944 • At Sea, Newfoundland, Canada
    [​IMG]

    Web: Canada, Virtual War Memorial Index, 1900-2014
    Name: Matthew Joseph Spencer
    Rank: Leading Seaman
    Death Date: 24 Jan 1944
    Cemetery: PLYMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL ; Devon, United Kingdom
    Grave Reference: Panel 101. Column 1.
    Force: Navy
    Unit: Royal Navy
    Division: H.M.S. President III
    Service Number: D/JX 201699
    URL: Home - Veterans Affairs Canada...

    Matthew Joseph Spencer - The Canadian Virtual War Memorial - Veterans Affairs Canada

    UK, British Army and Navy Birth, Marriage and Death Records, 1730-1960
    Name: Matthew Joseph Spencer
    Event: Death
    Birth Date: 27 Jun 1919
    Birth Place: Burges, Newfoundland
    Death Date: 23 Jan 1944
    Death Age: 24
    44994_adm_104_137-0140.jpg

    TD
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
  7. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    A question to which I do not know the answer.
    As well as L/S Spencer there was another death on the same day (23/01/44) from the same ship - AB Alfred John Sharp
    C/JX 391875, also buried in Digby (Forest Hill) Cemetery.
    Both were DEMS gunners and both are recorded in the Register of Deaths - Naval Ratings as having Died on War Service rather than by accident.

    Above Post indicates death by drowning but are there any clues as to the event that caused this?

    Tim
     
  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, British Army and Navy Birth, Marriage and Death Records, 1730-1960
    Name: Alfred John Sharp
    Event: Death
    Birth Date: 7 Dec 1923
    Birth Place: Camberwell,London
    Death Date: 23 Jan 1944
    Death Age: 20
    44994_adm_104_136-0315.jpg

    In the column for Cause of Death the number 1 signifies 'Died on War Service'

    This database shows as timuk states they died on the same day 23 Jan 1944


    On the Rocks: Shipwrecks of Nova Scotia - Maritime Museum of the Atlantic, Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Residents in the Digby Neck area reported hearing three explosions on the night of January 23, 1944. In the following days 10 bodies were found washed ashore along the Digby coastline. Four of the bodies were identified as being from the overdue AIKATERINI T. The cause of her loss was never determined. Postwar records showed no German submarines were in the area. There is a remote chance that she may have struck a stray floating sea mine, but a more probable account suggests a coal dust explosion. AIKATERINI T. was quite an old vessel at the time of her loss which may have contributed to hull or engine failure.

    TD


    Royal Navy casualties, killed and died, January 1944
    Sunday, 23 January 1944
    Aikatemine, steamship
    SHARP, Alfred J, Act/Able Seaman (DEMS), C/JX 391873, (President III, O/P), killed

    Monday, 24 January 1944
    Aikaterini, steamship
    SPENCER, Matthew J, Ty/Act/Leading Seaman, D/JX 201699, (President III, O/P), killed
     
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  9. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    TD - that's brilliant.
    Title of thread really should be 'Naval Personnel buried on shore, but listed on Naval Memorials'.

    Tim
     
  10. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

  11. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Caracas Southern General Cemetery Venezuela

    - BRADE, Paul Harper FAA/FX 95958

    Cemetery = LEE-ON-SOLENT MEMORIAL Hants

    (Grave Unmaintainable)

    Sadly a move in the wrong direction. I think this is down to the present political situation.
     
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  12. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Details are from a family tree on Ancestry:


    Paul was a Leading Airman in the Royal Navy-H.M.S. Goshawk ~Service No:FAA/FX 95958.He was 18. The aircraft in which he was travelling crash-landed on the Paria Peninsular, Venezuela, South America, on November 16, 1943. At the time, his remains could not be found and therefore, for many years he was commemorated as ‘missing’ on the Fleet Air Arm Memorial, Lee-on-Solent.
    The wreckage and his remains were recovered in 1972 and he was interred in Caracas Southern General Cemetery and his grave is marked by a CWGC pedestal Marker
    His brother, Lieutenant Kenneth Harper Brade , Service No:267944, aged 22, also died on service.He served with the Royal Engineers and rests in Assisi War Cemetery, Italy.
    They were sons of Robert Harper Brade and Marie Louise Brade [nee Dalby] of Streatham,South London.
    Gravesite Details As at April 2015, CWGC is working with the local British Embassy to attempt to improve the grave site of this casualty.


    UK, British Army and Navy Birth, Marriage and Death Records, 1730-1960
    Name: Paul Harper Brade
    Event: Death
    Birth Date: 22 Dec 1924
    Birth Place: West Norwood, London
    Death Date: 16 Nov 1943
    Death Age: 18
    44994_adm_104_128-0059.jpg

    Global, Find A Grave Index for Burials at Sea and other Select Burial Locations, 1300s-Current
    Name: Paul Harper Brade
    Birth Date: 1925
    Birth Place: Lambeth, London Borough of Lambeth, Greater London, England
    Death Date: 16 Nov 1943
    Death Place: Venezuela
    Cemetery: Caracas Southern General Cemetery
    Burial or Cremation Place: Caracas, Capital District, Venezuela
    https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/125400503 - this link is the same as the initial history of the subject


    TD
     
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  13. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    A/Leading Airman Brade was flying in a Stinson Reliant as an Observer under training. HMS Goshawk was the FAA Flying Training Establishment at Piarco, Trinidad.
    From CWGC:
    upload_2019-1-28_16-18-57.png
    I cannot find any other casualties from this accident. Which begs the question who was the pilot (and other aircrew?) and did they survive?

    Tim
     
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  14. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hmmm - there doesnt seem to be anyone killed that day from Goshawk - perhaps they were from another 'ship'

    UK, British Army and Navy Birth, Marriage and Death Records, 1730-1960
    Name: Paul H. Brade
    Event: Death
    Birth Date: abt 1926
    Death Date: 16 Nov 1943
    Death Age: 17
    Death Place: Calf of Paria (Nr Trinidad)
    Ship: Goshawk
    44994_adm_104_115-0105.jpg

    TD
     
  15. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    From: Family History - Royal Navy and Naval History.Net
    16 November 1943
    Carlisle, drowning
    CASSTLES, Wallace E, Act/Engine Room Artificer 4c, D/MX 90374, died
    Elementary Flying Training School No.12, Ontario, air crash
    BILLINGTON, Samuel E, Ty/Act/Leading Airman, FAA/FX 582017, killed
    Exeter, as POW
    BRADLEY, Joseph D, Leading Air Fitter (E), FAA/SFX 435, died
    FAA, 752 Sqn, Goshawk, air crash
    BRADE, Paul H, Ty/Act/Leading Airman, FAA/FX 95958, killed

    Faulknor, evacuation of Leros
    PHIPPS, Alan, Lieutenant, killed
    MMS.103
    DONLAN, Albert, Seaman, RNPS, LT/JX 277821, MPK

    No other naval casualties that fit the area that day.

    Tim
     
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