loss of crew info please

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by joybonjovi, Mar 1, 2013.

  1. joybonjovi

    joybonjovi Junior Member

    Hello, Can anyone tell me what happened to the following airmen, their planes & crew members please?
    F/L Norman Grenville Butler RAFVR 47 sqdn 17/4/45
    F/O Francis Peter Humphries RAFVR 101 sqdn 18/10/43
    Sergeant Charles Corbett Stevens RAFVR 156 sqdn 20/5/42
    Many thanks,
    Joy.
     
  2. graeme

    graeme Senior Member

  3. graeme

    graeme Senior Member

  4. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member Patron

    F/O Francis Peter Humphries RAFVR 101 sqdn 18/10/43

    Details of the above loss.

    18-19 October 1943

    101 Squadron
    Lancaster III DV230 SR-T
    Op. hanover.

    Took off from Ludford Magna at 1715 hours. believed shot down by a night fighter and crashed between Brelingen and Negenborn, 20 km north north west of Hanover.

    Crew.
    F/O. F P. Humphries +
    Sgt. A A. Oliver +
    Sgt. D. Ford +
    Sgt. K W. Walker +
    Sgt. EF A. Rowe RCAF +
    Sgt. J F. Hoban +
    P/O. L T. Thurlby MID +
    Sgt. J T. Wigley +
    Sgt. R.Thorogood +

    Source - RAF Bomber Command Losses Vol.4 - W R. Chorley
     
  5. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member Patron

    Sergeant Charles Corbett Stevens RAFVR 156 sqdn 20/5/42

    Detailsof the above loss.

    19-20 May 1942

    156 Squadron
    Wellington III X3671 GT-
    Op. Mannheim

    Took off from Alconbury. Crashed near Hargnies (Ardennes) a village close to the Franco-Belgium frontier some 13 km south south west of Givet, France.

    Crew.

    S/L. T C. McGillivray DFC +
    Sgt. D. Mathieson RCAF +
    P/O. D. Hellyer +
    F/S. K V. Whelan +
    Sgt. C C. Stevens +
    P/O. E F. Valentine +

    Source - RAF Bomber Command Losses Vol.3 - W R. Chorley
     
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  6. joybonjovi

    joybonjovi Junior Member

    Thank you Graeme & Peter for the details of Peter Humphries & Charles Stevens. Much appreciated.
    Regards,
    Joy.
     
  7. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    I downloaded the ORB for 47SQN during April 1945 and it shows that Butler was killed on take-off while carrying a load of bombs in his Mosquito aircraft. (Page from ORB attached)



    Crew:

    Flight Lieutenant BUTLER, NORMAN GRENVILLE 134152 RAF (Pilot)

    Flight Sergeant ROBSON, FRANK 1672351 RAF (Nav)



    ***********************************************************



    47 Squadron RAF



    1944-1946 India and the Far East


    The squadron moved with the Beaufighters to India in March 1944, re-equipping with de Havilland Mosquitos in October that year. This was not a success as the Mosquito was almost immediately grounded owing to failures of the wooden structure due to the hot and humid Indian climate, and it re-acquired the Beaufighter in November.

    They were soon supporting operations in Burma in both day and night attacks with rockets. The squadron partly re-equipped with Mosquitos in February 1945, with both its Beaufighters and Mosquitos being heavily used to support General Slim's 14th Army in its attack against Mandalay. It completely re-equipped with Mosquitos in April 1945, continuing operations against Japanese forces until the end of the war.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. joybonjovi

    joybonjovi Junior Member

    Hello Dave,
    Many thanks for the details regarding Norman Butler, very interesting. Had heard some rumours from an old boy that knew him who thought the plane had clipped a tree on take off, but of course was unconfirmed. What is the ORB?
    Thanks once again for your help.
    Regards,
    Joy.
     
  9. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    Hi Joy - the ORB is the Operations Record Book and it should have been compiled and sent to HQ every month by every unit in the RAF (& RAAF, RNZAF, SAAF, RCAF). Normally 2 parts (plus appendixes etc) - one part lists the actual flying, which planes took off for which missions with which crew. The other part is the narrative - incidents & accidents, postings in & out, morale and other administrative matters.

    I bought the second part for April 1945 as it is normally more descriptive. The ORBs are available via TNA (The National Archives - UK) for 3.36 quid each file. Sometimes you get lucky and get 100s of pages and other times you only get 3 pages with bugger all info. Really up to the quality and diligence of the person doing the report (and other outside factors like enemy action, SQN movements etc).


    The attachment to this post shows the first page and even names the officer who compiled the report (Flight Lieutenant Edward Wilson HUNTER (105478) - MiD December 1945).
     

    Attached Files:

    Pieter F likes this.
  10. joybonjovi

    joybonjovi Junior Member

    Thanks Dave, thats amazing. Much appreciate your help & advice.
    Kind Regards,
    Joy.
     
  11. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    Cheers Joy - it's what the board is here for (amongst other things).

    It is always nice to get thanked.


    Dave
     
  12. french_guy

    french_guy New Member

    Pictures from the cimetery in France (Hargnies - postcode 08170).
    pilotes enterrés à Hargnies 08 (6).JPG pilotes enterrés à Hargnies 08 (7).JPG
    cimetière hargnies 019.JPG
    pilotes enterrés à Hargnies 08 (2).JPG pilotes enterrés à Hargnies 08 (3).JPG pilotes enterrés à Hargnies 08 (4).JPG pilotes enterrés à Hargnies 08 (5).JPG

    I did a zip file with this photos in highdef, you can download here (during 30 days only) : http://dl.free.fr/h6hrq2G09 (it is virus-free don't worry)

    If anything you need (pictures, informations) in this area, feel free to ask me.
    I would be pleased to have any photos or documents regarding those pilots, because in the village we just know their names (except a photo of C.C. Stevens on the web)...

    Thanks

    Arnaud
     
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  13. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Arnaud

    thank you for posting

    regards
    Clive
     
  14. Kahu

    Kahu Junior Member

    Hullo Arnaud
    If it is of interest, I can provide you with a small photo of Thomas McGillivray from when he was at school in Oamaru. It is a rugby team photo dated 1931. My father went to the same school and they played rugby together.
    As well as being a good rugby player, Tom McGillivray was a top New Zealand boxer and held the NZ welterweight title 1934-1936. He fought under the name of "Don Stirling".
    Regards
    Bob
     
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  15. french_guy

    french_guy New Member

    Hi Kahu,
    I must apologize to answer to your post 2 years late... Yes I am really interested in records or any datas regarding Thomas McGillivray
    I send you a private message with my email
    Best regards
    Arnaud


    **************
    I am also searching for any datas on the crew :
    S/L. T C. McGillivray DFC +
    Sgt. D. Mathieson RCAF +
    P/O. D. Hellyer +
    F/S. K V. Whelan +
    Sgt. C C. Stevens +
    P/O. E F. Valentine +
     
  16. alieneyes

    alieneyes Senior Member

    Hi Arnaud,

    Donald Mathieson was born Toronto 5 October, 1918, the son of William and Marion, née Heatley, Mathieson, husband of Lorna Miriam Mathieson, née Billman (married 14 September 1941)

    Enlisted in the RCAF 16 December 1940.

    Can't say whether the whole crew was with him at OTU but he was at No. 21 OTU from 18 November 1941 - 4 December 1941, then No. 12 OTU from 4 December 1941 - 28 April 1942. Posted to No. 156 Squadron 28 April, 1942.

    Crashplace is given as "the wooded hills near Laneuville aux Hais Ardennes"

    Regards,

    Dave
     
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  17. Jumh

    Jumh New Member

    My mother was married to Tom McGillivray so any photos or any information on Tomwould be wonderful.
    Julie
     
  18. Jumh

    Jumh New Member

    Hi Bob
    Have only just registered with this site and was so thrilled to read all the various messages re Tom McGillivray. My mum was married to Tom and she often spoke of the time the plane went missing, crew presumed dead. I would love any more information on Tom or any photos.
    Julie
     
  19. french_guy

    french_guy New Member

    Hi Julie, I am really confused I just read your message two years late ! Actually we invited Bob to visit us in France next september 2018 to see the grave of the crew and the exact place were the plane crashed... would be a pleasure to speak with you my email is arnovinc (at) protonmail.com

    @for_all We still looking for other families from this crew !

    Arnaud
     
  20. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Bonjour Arnaud,

    As Julie has not visited the forum since 2016 I’ve sent her a message to alert her to your post. Hopefully she will return to the forum.

    Steve
     
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