Help understanding grandfathers service record - starting 78th fld reg

Discussion in 'Royal Artillery' started by thcerd, Jul 22, 2019.

  1. thcerd

    thcerd Member

    Apologies I dont have any pictures or scans of actual documents, just notes i took. I have done some research on the net but I am struggling with this record. Any help gratefully accepted.

    SN 796079

    postings

    23.2.38 – 78 fld

    38/43 corps 78f – a/c/c 5.4.41

    (unreadable) KENT

    2 ech 928/43 – to x2 14.6.43 disch x 2 14.6.43 (78 fld Regt RA)

    2 ech ME 1344/43 – sos MEF to BNAF 29.8.43

    2 ech NA 918/44 – to x (2) 26.4.44

    2nd ech NA 506/44 – from x2 to x 1V 19.5.44

    2nd ech NA 593/44 – HQ 2 INF Bde 28.5.44

    (hard to read could be BREF) 2 440/44 – to x2 2.8.44

    G53586 9/9/42

    Cmf x 809/44 – from x2 31.8.44 x (1V)

    2 ech cmf x838/44 – allied pw coll (hard to read G o ll?) post 27 area 17/9/44

    Cmf x 330/45 to x2 9.4.45

    Cmf x 375/45 – from x (2) 17.4.45 to “d” (allied pw) collection post

    Cmf x 608/45 – 312 transit camp 10.7.45

    Cmf x 705/45 - sos cmf to bld 24.7.45

    Posted to Y LIST class a release

    ACC 202/45 14.10.45

    Class a release 19.oct 1945

    Order - promotions

    106/41 – p/a/Bdr 31.5.41

    136/41 – w/bdr 29.8.41

    Training record 311/78 FD Brigade – attested and posted – rank gunner from 23.2.38 - stamped 311 midlothian

    Territorial army – attestation

    royal regiment of artillery 311 field battery R A (TA)

    termination of engagement 26.8.33



    Service at home and abroad

    HOME – British - 23.2.38 to 12.7.42 – years 4 days 140

    ME -4- 13.7.42 to 28.8.43 – years 1 days 4

    BNAF 29.8.43 to 13.10.45 – years 2

    Home 14.10.45 to 19.11.46

    Promotion, reductions and casualties

    38/43 – 38 field rgt - trans to A CC bMO 2E/332/2656 A d 1 – 10.3.43

    02E/MEF/pte?/376/2.4.43

    SOS ME to 18 (or 13) NAF

    Stamped discharged on completion of engagement – Authority 1A REG PARA 234/1

    Allocated to the army general reserve group P and eligible for recall to H45

    Authority navy army and airforce reserve act 1954

    Medals Africa star ( 2ech bnaf acc 350/44)

    8th army clasp wic 1692/44 – 2nd echelon

    Efficiency medal (T) A O

    Awarded war medal 1939/45

    Defence medal

    Italy star

    1939/45 STAR (this is stamped) n/c RG
     
  2. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Before looking at your notes in detail, could you clarify - are you saying that you have seen his service records and taken notes? Has someone else sent for them and you have seen those?

    Full service records are only available from the MOD:-
    Get a copy of military service records

    796079 enlisted in the Royal Artillery 27.8.1929 (to 26.8.1933) and re-enlisted 23.2.1938? To ACC (? Army Catering Corps) 5.4.1941.
     
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  3. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

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  4. thcerd

    thcerd Member

    I saw the record, I could not get photos at the time, its not in my possession. I am not yet next of kin but my grandfather died in 1978. I took notes on a family visit. I am negotiating a full copy. It could be years until I become next of kin. I know he was a butcher by trade and was in the army and reenlisted in 1938. His records show promotions as Bdr twice in 1941. So the ACC confuses me. Was he a cook/butcher the same time as a w/Bdr? etc. Was he promoted to w/bdr after he was in acc? I don't know.
     
  5. thcerd

    thcerd Member

    Not sure what 2 Ech NA is. I did read up a bit on MEF CMF etc. But I am finding it hard to track his starting place overseas and his postings.
     
  6. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    You do not have to be next of kin to get his records, anyone can. This is from the service record link:

    "Apply for the records of someone who's deceased
    You can apply for a copy of someone else’s service records if any of the following apply:
    - you’re their immediate next of kin, for example their spouse or parent
    - you’ve got consent from their immediate next of kin
    - you have a general research interest - you’ll only have access to limited information, unless they died more than 25 years ago
    You need to know the person’s full name, date of birth and service number."

    In fact you do not need service number, just DOB and death certificate. If you are a relative could you not get their permission?
     
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  7. thcerd

    thcerd Member

    I will attempt it if I cannot get a timely copy from my family. In the mean time I just have notes...
     
  8. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    2nd Echelon, North Africa (fully: BNAF: British North Africa Forces)
    Prior to that he was 2nd Echelon MEF: Middle-East Forces

    Different commands covering different territorial areas at different times:

    MEF: Egypt & the desert to Tunis.
    BNAF: Algiers to Tunis
    CMF: Italy, Greece and the Balkans

    Or so I've read:
    BNAF, CMF, MEF
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
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  9. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

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  10. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    apply for the records as suggested you will get full records due to the fact he died over 25 years ago
    if you are going by notes you will possibly get it wrong

    you will not find anything on the internet about him or his service records so dont be fooled by websites offering you this type of info
     
  11. thcerd

    thcerd Member

    Best pictures I could get texted to me.
     

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  12. thcerd

    thcerd Member

  13. thcerd

    thcerd Member

    Promotion, reductions and casualties

    38/43 – 38 field rgt (change to 78 field reg) - trans to A CC bMO 2E/332/2656 A d 1 – 10.3.43
     
  14. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

  15. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    ?

    Transferred to Army Catering Corps
     
  16. thcerd

    thcerd Member

    Is there any way of knowing from that record the date or ship of his first overseas appointment? I have found this and I am just trying to work out if he went with 78th fld since day one or if he arrived later? Trying to figure out which battles he was actually in/supporting.

    A Short History
     
  17. thcerd

    thcerd Member

    Did ACC in the artillery regiments have the same ranks as those manning the guns? Just noting the promotions in 1941 with artillery ranks. w/bdr etc.
     
  18. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    He could well have been the Regimental Butcher.

    If he served with 78 Fd Regt RA then that would place him at Anzio in support of 1 Inf Div Jan-May 44.

    Regards

    Frank
     
  19. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    Royal Artillery Attestations, 1929:

    Watson_01.jpg

    Watson_02.jpg

     
  20. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    To be honest it is difficult to work out from the images you have posted, I don't think they are complete, and, a bit difficult to read. The summary indicates that he was 'Home' until 12.7.42, but no details on the other forms for that period. Can you get whoever is holding them to scan complete pages and send them to you in order? Either that of perhaps they could photocopy them and post them to you to scan.

    ps. the place in Kent looks like Sidcup.
     

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