I've just come across a reference to a British EM4 rifle, a paper project circa 1944-46, on Wikepedia (yeah, I know but it also mentions the EM3 project by a Major Hall which is mentioned in other sources). Can anyone throw any light on this?
I am just leaving the house for a family visit (don't you just love Christmas duty) but will answer your questions later as I have pictures etc. Regards TonyE
When I posted that reply earlier I was sure I had some reference to the EM-4 but can I find it now? I do have some details and drawings though of the Hall Rifle. Major J.E.M.Hall was an Australian officer on the 8th SAT (War) course at RMCS Shrivenham (now the Defence Academy) and the rifle was a design solution to a problem set to the course. It was well received and he patented the design in 1945. The patent is No.589394 dated 5th February 1945. The basic patent drawing is attached. One of the most interesting points is that it ejected over the shoulder so eliminated any problems with left ot right handed users. It was never built althouh I believe a wooden mock up was made for demonstration purposes. Interestingly, in a letter to Brigadier Barlow shortly before he went home to Australia, Hall mentions the work being done at CEAD and by Burney. The Burney was of course a 7mm recoiless rifle which although usually referred to as the Broadway Trust Rifle may have been the EM-4. Regards TonyE
Thank you for the prompt reply. As to the Burney rifle, which I also thought may be the EM-4, while this may have been a "reduced recoil" weapon I don't think it was in fact recoilless. This is something I'm still looking into, at the moment I have a feeling that the Burney may have been no more than a paper project. Regards, biscuits AB
It was certainly more that a paper project. Both the 7mm and the 20mm rifles were made and tested. I have examples of both the ammunition and fired bullets for the 7mm. (pictures attached) There was also an EM-4 machine gun, the Turpin designed tank MG, but I don't think this is the EM-4 Wiki mentions. The EM numbers were allocated to weapon type, so for example there is the EM-1 rifle but also the EM-1 Light Machine Gun in 7.92x57. Regards TonyE
That recoilless 7mm is fascinating. Where did the gases port to? I thought that they had to go 180 degrees away from the muzzle, which would seem to be a problem in a shoulder fired rifle. Thanks.
Although it is described in the documentation as "recoiless" I think BiscuitAB's description of "reduced recoil" is probably more accurate. The principle of the Burney was an enlarged chamber that the gases expanded into and were then exhausted through the barrel after the bullet had left. You can see this in the patent drawing attached. I wrote an article on the Burney projects in the International Ammunition Association Journal last year which had pictures from the provisional manual on all the Burney guns that were demonstrated at Shoeburyness in 1944. I will photograph a couple of the sectioned fired bullets over the weekend and post them. Regards TonyE
Also, if I'm reading the patent drawing correctly, it uses the "soft recoil" principle that I've only ever heard of in relation artillery pieces. The lower drawing showing the working parts and magazine held to the rear while the other shows the sear in contact with what I can only call the bent of the barrel. Interesting design, I assume it locks/unlocks by rotation?
Looks to be a few files at Kew on the Burney recoil-less gun: WO 32/12092, GENERAL AND WARLIKE STORES: Guns (Code 45(H)): Burney recoil-less gun and H.V. projective 1946-1947 WO 32/12092, GENERAL AND WARLIKE STORES: Rockets (Code 45Q): Burney Recoil-less Gun and H.V. Projectile 1946-1947 WO 232/45, Artillery: notes on trail, development and role of the Burney recoilless gun 1942 Dec-1945 June WO 203/1300, Equipment: Rockets and Burney recoilless guns and notes on multiple rocket projector 1944 Oct.-1945 May WO 185/140, Guns and ammunition: proposals by Sir D. Burney 1942-47 SUPP 14/1039/A, Possible requirement to manufacture for further trials in 3.1" and 4.5" Burney guns: (i) draft specification proposal that name of propellant should be cordite NY instead of cordite D.B.P. SUPP 14/1079, Possible requirements to manufacture trials in Burney guns 1949 Lee
Engineering and design - recoilless weapons: ACMP 706-238 Recoiless Rifle Weapon Systems - USA - 1976
The files at Kew mainly pertain to Burney's work on larger calibre artillery and anti-aircraft weapons. His recoiless 3.45 inch gun eventually developed into the Wombat/Mobat type guns. I am not sure whether his proposed saboted AA guns were connected with Green Mace or not as it is a bit outside my field. I will ask next time I am down at Shrivenham. Regards TonyE
Looks to be a few files at Kew on the Burney recoil-less gun: WO 32/12092, GENERAL AND WARLIKE STORES: Guns (Code 45(H)): Burney recoil-less gun and H.V. projective 1946-1947 WO 32/12092, GENERAL AND WARLIKE STORES: Rockets (Code 45Q): Burney Recoil-less Gun and H.V. Projectile 1946-1947 WO 232/45, Artillery: notes on trail, development and role of the Burney recoilless gun 1942 Dec-1945 June WO 203/1300, Equipment: Rockets and Burney recoilless guns and notes on multiple rocket projector 1944 Oct.-1945 May WO 185/140, Guns and ammunition: proposals by Sir D. Burney 1942-47 SUPP 14/1039/A, Possible requirement to manufacture for further trials in 3.1" and 4.5" Burney guns: (i) draft specification proposal that name of propellant should be cordite NY instead of cordite D.B.P. SUPP 14/1079, Possible requirements to manufacture trials in Burney guns 1949 LeeInteresting to see the 4.5 in RCL mentioned since this, with a 7 round auto-loader, was proposed to arm RAF fighters in the post war period. One of Burney's patents deals with such a device although the mock up of this does't match with drawings of the device eventually settled upon.
Just wondering if anyone's come across fired cases in this calibre. If you mean the 3.45 inch recoiless there were two case types. One had a blow out base (like the Carl Gustav) and the other a perforated case like the later US RCL rifles. The blow out base type was the type chosen for development. I used to have a mint dummy round filled HES but I parted with it years ago. The Defence Academy at Shrivenham has both types in their ammunition display though. Picture shows their perforated case and the similarity in principle with the 7mm perforated case can be seen. Cases do turn up very occassionally at car boots and militaria fairs but I have not seen one for a long time. I thought the RCL with autoloader that was intended for the Javelin fighter was based on the German work on aircraft weapons rather than the Burney? A lot of ground tests were carried out at Woolwich firing development weapons from an inverted Mosquito fuselage and I have seen film of these. Rounds (and cases) for the 7mm are extremely rare and I have only ever seen the drawing of the 20mm round. I only know a handful of people world wide who have a 7mm BTC round. Regards TonyE
Yes, the Dussen kanonen, or whatever. On he other hand the mock up I referred to had a vertical feed hopper rather than the drum type of the Dussen and the RAF weapon in its final form. I've also come across 'photos of the Mosquito test and also some of a Beaufighter used for the same purpose, the weapon shown in these was the Burney 95 mm intended for use by the RA. The RAF work may have been a meld of Burney and German work.
