BEF Vehicle Arm of Service Markings (GHQ and others)

Discussion in '1940' started by Rich Payne, Oct 30, 2010.

  1. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    To complement Derek's reply - here are a couple more pictures - one of Jan's Cassel quad from another angle from e-bay and a second of a quad with ammunition trailer and 18 pounder, also with an AoS number 10, also in Cassel.

    The second picture was originally posted on Maple Leaf Up by James Baxter and identified as 5 RHA (which I understand was also present in Cassel) but according to Derek's site it would be expected to have a number 9 and a fig leaf 3 Corps insignia for it to be that regiment. I haven't yet seen a picture of a quad with a 9 in Cassel.

    Andrew
     

    Attached Files:

  2. rewdco

    rewdco Senior Member

    Here's another picture from Cassel. Do I see a "10" AoS on the motorcycle as wel...???

    [​IMG]

    And here's another "34": a Morris Commercial in Rosendael (Dunkirk). The white bar is on top of the 34, unlike the Anti Aircraft guns:

    [​IMG]

    Jan
     
  3. rewdco

    rewdco Senior Member

    Another one from Cassel (from this forum, can't remember the thread...). Again: "20".

    [​IMG]

    And another one from De Panne, "34" ("29" on the motorcycles):

    [​IMG]

    Jan
     
  4. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    25 Motocycles listed as WE for RHA Regiments in 1940 but it lists the prime movers as Light Dragons rather than Quads.
     
  5. rewdco

    rewdco Senior Member

    Two more:

    Location unknown, but "all" the vehicles appear to have a "21" AoS:

    [​IMG]

    Location unknown, "12" on a Bedford:

    [​IMG]

    Jan
     
  6. Derek Barton

    Derek Barton Senior Member

    The numbering for Corps units on my site works on the premise that regulations were followed and the senior regt took the lowest number. This may not have always been the case and in this case it appears that 5 RHA may well have carried 10. It's just a pity we can't see the Corps insignia to confirm it.
     
  7. Derek Barton

    Derek Barton Senior Member

    Andy, with reference to RHA units having Dragons, 1 & 2 RHA had Dragons but K Bty in an account of Hondeghem states that a gun was limbered up to its Quad. They were probably issued Quads instead of Dragons because production of Dragons ceased in 1938 after a decision to go for wheeled tractors and when K mobilised at St Johns Wood in 1939 they were still horsed.
     
  8. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Derek

    Here's another scan of Jan's original picture of the Guy quad in Cassel. It is reasonably clear that it has the upright arrow of 1 Corps on the front mudguard which, combined with the 10 (and subject to your caveat about following regulations), makes it 140 Fld Regiment.

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=39971&d=1289016523

    While we are on the subject, here are two pics from different viewpoints of a Morris Quad in Place Plummer. The one showing the 10 is from e-bay, the other is from a site by Alain Beck.

    Andrew
     

    Attached Files:

  9. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Derek

    Can you shed any light on which artillery regiment may be the one with the AoS code 17 with bar beneath as depicted in posts #5 and #7 of this thread? The picture from #7 is this one:

    [​IMG]

    It looks very much like the location of this picture is Dunkirk and I thought the fact that the artillery tractor was a Morris CDSW might help. I see from your website that the candidate regiments with GHQ would be:

    32 Army Fld Rgt RA
    115 Army Fld Rgt RA
    98 Army Fld Rgt RA*
    139 Army Fld Rgt RA

    Maybe this sort of information can be obtained from war diaries? I would be interested to know your thoughts.

    Andrew

    * Now confirmed this is 98 Army Field Regiment
     
  10. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Jan

    Re #45 Location unknown, but "all" the vehicles appear to have a "21" AoS

    I think the picture is Cassel. The number 21 has no bar so relates to an infantry division. The senior regiment in the 145th Infantry Brigade would have carried a 21 on brown and the senior regiment was 2nd Gloucesters. Drew's post in another thread about which units were in Cassel indicates this would be the one. (By the way, the picture in Cassel with AoS number 20 is from Rich in post #21 in BEF 1940 Vehicle markings about a year ago.)

    GHQ Light Anti Aircraft Marking in the same picture

    A bonus is, on the right side of the same picture, a Morris Bofors tractor with a GHQ AoS plate with a vertical split (anti-aircraft) and a bar below. If it is not a stray then according to Drew's post of units at Cassel it can only be from Troop 151 of 51 (Devon) Light AA Regiment RA(TA). All we need now is to read the number. Until a better one arrives I would vote for 31.


    12 on a Bedford - this is a Corps (bar above) artillery unit but we don't know which without the Corps insignia.


    re #43 - 29 on motorcycle at De Panne - the 29 has no bar is visible and indicates a field ambulance unit in an infantry division. I feel it unlikely that the 29 ties in to the 29 on the Scammell mentioned earlier. That must be a GHQ unit as it is a medium artillery tractor, which only GHQ had.


    34 at De Panne - this looks like an anti tank portee unit as part of an infantry division.


    re #42 - 10 on motorcycle at Cassel - I agree it is a 10 and have not seen this picture before. Thanks for posting it.


    34 with bar above at Rosendael - according to Hodges and Taylor this would be on red and represent an M/G battalion at Corps level but with no Corps insignia we don't know which.


    Please keep the pictures coming - especially anything with a bar below.


    Andrew
     
  11. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    JCB

    Thanks for confirming the Dunkirk location for the Morris ambulance. Drew has warned that ambulances could be part of RASC so I will need to find out what such units would have been attached to GHQ.

    Andrew
     
  12. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

  13. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    3 Division on left side and what looks like a number 3 in the centre

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    3 on left wing and 5 on a 2 colour horiztonal background

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    160 The right wing of the 2nd picture looks like a G over 14

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Derek Barton

    Derek Barton Senior Member

    Andrew

    Agreed, #48 is 140 Fld Rgt (must get some new glasses). As to finding the type of tractor a unit had, the war diaries might have this if you are very lucky. Unit histories are a better source of this type of info (sometimes). Of the 4 possible units for the CDSW I have a history of the 98th but it has no photos and the only mentions of the vehicles are all just "tractor" so not much help.
     
  17. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    A fairly well known picture from the French archives. This Foden DG4 looks to be wearing '176' with a bar under.

    [​IMG]

    It would seem likely that this '176' is 2 Lof C (Railhead) Company RASC
     
  18. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    This Cherbourg picture requires a certain amount of interpretation. It looks like '64' with a GHQ bar to me. Is it an Albion ? There's a rather tasty Triumph there too. I'm not sure if it's a Speed Twin or a Tiger 100 but either would have been a cut above the standard DR mount.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    If this is '64' on a black ground then it indicates 1 HQ, Signals but a higher res image is needed.
     
  19. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Drew

    Thanks for the pics.

    #52 is a bren carrier of 2nd Bn Grenadier Guards (14 on red) of 3rd Infantry Divsision.

    #53 is a scout carrier, probably of 15/19 Hussars attached to 3rd Infantry Division, in Louvain

    #54 Morris PU has a number 3 bridging sign on left mudguard and a number 5 AoS on a 2 colour red/blue horizontal background. If that is also the 3rd Division triangle on the other mudguard the it could be 33rd Field Regiment.

    #55 is very interesting. I have seen these captioned as 4th Battalion Border Regiment on the Somme Front, May 1940. The double line above appears on other vehicles too but it is not referred to in Hodges and Taylor. I attach another picture of a truck with the same marking. *


    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40039&stc=1&d=1289145528


    Have you got any idea where there might be a listing of Arm of Service numbers attached to GHQ / Army Troops' vehicles (ie with a white bar underneath rather than on top of the number)?

    Andrew

    * According to 'Vehicle Markings of the BEF' this truck can now be confirmed as belonging to 5 Reserve Motor Transport Company of the RASC in the BEF Lines of Communication.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Thanks Derek. Perhaps someone will one day assemble this information where it does exist, but it sounds like there is not much to be had.

    Andrew
     

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