BEF Vehicle Arm of Service Markings (GHQ and others)

Discussion in '1940' started by Rich Payne, Oct 30, 2010.

  1. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Andrew,

    My guess is they may be in one of the 53 GHQ files at Kew, like the booklet in the I Corps file. The trouble is they scare me half to death by the amount of pages. The two I pulled earlier this year to (check out) were so thick they will take the best part of a day to copy hence why I haven't done them yet. I just put them straight back so I could focus on quantity at the moment.

    Regards
    Andy
     
  2. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Rich

    Have you seen this other picture? Another Foden with 176? This time next to a MkVIB from 3 RTR, probably in Calais. There is a story about trying to get some supplies through to Dunkirk so perhaps these are those supplies.

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40040&stc=1&d=1289146205

    Your other picture is completely new to me. If only we could read the number. I agree it is probably an Albion - see the pic below. A search on the net indicates yours is a slightly later version.

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40044&stc=1&d=1289147287

    I also have a picture of an Albion at a dockside location in France, taken from one of those 'The War in [poor quality] Pictures' series. This time with number 84 and a bar below. Could yours also be 84?

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40043&stc=1&d=1289146798


    Andrew
     

    Attached Files:

  3. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Drew

    Those GHQ files sound intriguing. Perhaps we could find a hungry student to help ...

    Andrew
     
  4. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    The Foden photograph is captioned by Pallud as between Hondschoote and Ghyvelde so it's another one of those from Les Moeres.

    I'd suspect that a 176 was indeed an RASC transport company but I don't suppose that we'll ever know where those particular vehicles came from.

    I think that "my" Albion probably also has an '84' Certainly the disruptive of very dark (green ?) over quite a light shade looks to be the same in both cases.
     
  5. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    3 on left wing and 5 on a 2 colour horiztonal background

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

  7. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

  8. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Here's another Scammel Pioneer (two actually) from a German album on eBay some time back. It's displaying '135' from a GHQ series

    [​IMG]

    Wonderful axle articulation !:)

    52nd Heavy Regt. RA - This regt fought as infantry on 25th May in the defence of St Momelin as part of Usherforce. Had they lost their tractors by then ?
     
  9. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Drew

    Thanks for the close up of the Morris. Unfortunately I still can't see what the marking is. I will have to find another copy of the picture. What is really interesting of course is the Humber Snipe(?) staff car in the background with an AoS plate with a bar underneath! I have seen it in other pictures of bren carriers in Belgium. I think it has something to do with the photographer.

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40120&d=1289233421

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40121&d=1289233421

    The Morris with the '6' in Rosendael has the same problem as the '5' above - no divisional/corps insignia can be seen. As for the picture of the Morris Quad, this is strange. Does it have an AoS plate stuck over its circular 20 mph speed restriction sign on the back locker?

    Andrew
     

    Attached Files:

  10. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Rich

    I love this picture. While I am looking at it I think I can see three Scammells. If you peer to the right and behind, below the '135' ...

    Surely the photographer took more than one shot of these. We need some clues about the guns and perhaps even the bridge classification would help. The pictures also show an early scheme for differentiating guns/vehicles within the regiment. That circle on the door is similar to those on Scammells in Taghon and to some on Dragons of 2 RHA in Pathe News shots. You can also just make out a symbol on the door of this dumped Scammell. Another puzzle if you are interested.

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40124&d=1289234089

    Andrew
     

    Attached Files:

  11. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Here is a quick summary in an Excel sheet of what I have seen in this thread so far. I have tried to mark any possibles with a question mark. Let me know if I should add or change anything ... or if I need to get out more.

    Andrew
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Great stuff Andrew. I'll have a good look through it.

    Get out more ? I don't know, but do you have the Tee-shirt...?

    Rivet Counter Shirts

    ..I do !B)
     
  13. JCB

    JCB Senior Member

    Just managed to view all the pics in this thread as my ,ahem ,9-5 computer does not show a lot of the pics , fantastic thread for BEF vehicles.
    Facsinating Cherbourg picture post 58, what a contrast between the immaculate officers on the right and the motley crew hanging on to the Albion to the left. I wondered if they were just moving stores around or something but they appear to be carrying rifles. First Triumph twin I've seen as well. Great stuff.
     
  14. Rob Dickers

    Rob Dickers 10th MEDIUM REGT RA

    25 - 2RHA
    Rob


    [​IMG]
     
  15. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    Rob

    Thanks for posting this picture, which really represents the BEF in so many ways. There is another picture of the same unit reproduced in 'Blitzkrieg' by S Zaloga showing one of the Dragons from the front. Together they give most (but not all) of the markings for these vehicles.

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40463&d=1289589671

    Pathe News has some movie sequences of the same vehicles at the same time as those shown in your picture which fills in some of the gaps. These are included here WITH THE BEF IN BELGIUM - British Pathe which has a number of other vehcles and markings too.

    Here is a small extract from one sequence which is packed with detail of one of the Dragons.

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40464&d=1289589671

    Here is the question. How is it that we have no photograhic record of the markings of 1 RHA? Was the number for 1 RHA 24?

    Andrew
     

    Attached Files:

  16. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    RE #58 and #78

    I agree JCB. The more I look at this picture the more interesting it becomes. Are any two officers wearing the same outfit? And what about the one with the pipe at the left of the officer group? He looks like the sort of character you might find in a Tintin book.

    Rich: Is there a story behind this picture and who the officers were? The location must be one which is well known.

    Andrew
     
  17. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    The photo is from Pallud's "Blitzkrieg à l'Ouest" and is only captioned (very roughly translated) 'The Departure of the BEF - More than 30,000 British soldiers embarked at Cherbourg. The officers are chatting behind the last 'P.C.' (command post ?) of the BEF'

    There may have been Canadians there as well as British officers.

    The slightly vague photo credits suggest that this is an IWM photo but I don't recall it. Could there be a separate album for '2nd BEF' that I haven't found ?

    This is another IWM image, actually showing KOYLIs in Southampton, just returned from Cherbourg. Is that also a Triumph bottom right ? There are certainly Nortons, BSAs and Matchlesses in the picture. Not an entirely irrelevant picture to the thread as the '500' on the lead BSA surely doesn't represent the cylinder capacity ? It must be an AoS marking but '500' on black would be completely outside of any range that I've come across.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Location unknown, "12" on a Bedford:

    [​IMG]

    Jan

    This is a photo that I know quite well but have only just realised whilst viewing it with Jan that he had a much better copy !

    Both the Bedford and the BSA are from Corps units and both are artillery. The '7' with bar above indicates HQ Corps, Medium Artillery and the '12' is Medium regiment RA. I'd be inclined to suspect that the lack of a visible formation sign leans towards 1 Corps. As the first corps in theatre, they seem to have left it to the following units to differentiate.

    It looks as if the small marking on the motorcycle's number plate is also two coloured and I have never been able to see that previously.

    I do so like new information like this !:) In fact, I think that thus inspired, I might well put a '1' on cobalt blue on my Norton's front plate to match the rear.
     
  19. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    '31' on this GHQ Bedford OXD. It looks to have a vertical colour split suggesting Royal Artillery.

    [​IMG]

    Again looking at things with Jan, we've examined the Norton (burned out but still standing) and the two BSAs in the right foreground. The closest of the bikes appears to carry '58' with a bar above indicating, on the probable black background, Corps Ordnance Field Park.
     
  20. Bodston

    Bodston Little Willy

    Another possible RASC truck (could be a Bedford ML) carrying 170 in Belgium. Could that be a diagonal split red/green RASC AoS?

    [​IMG]
     

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