BEF Casualties - 1940

Discussion in '1940' started by ramacal, Oct 11, 2011.

  1. Gooseman

    Gooseman Senior Member

    Rob, pls check my registry of UK KIA's burried in the Netherlands on Geallieerde gesneuvelden [Zuidfront Holland - Mei 1940] and you'll find some more KIA of the May 1940 campaign. These include 34 British KIA of May 1940 in the Rotterdam area alone.

    Obviously I do not know to what extend you speak of BEF casualties and whether or not such title would include the RAF and RN support of the BEF.
     
  2. ramacal

    ramacal 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA Patron

    Hi Gooseman,

    The casualties I have listed do not include Naval or Airmen, as it is more difficult to confirm their involvement unless you know the ships or Squadrons involved. The ground forces are much easier.

    When I have time, I will look at your website. I found and revised my figure for the Netherlands to 29 men. My original figure that you queried was incorrect and I have amended the total downwards.

    Regards - Rob
     
  3. Gooseman

    Gooseman Senior Member

    OK, Rob. Thnx for your reply.
     
  4. ramacal

    ramacal 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA Patron

    I have now rechecked the casualties for this campaign and the first page of this thread has been reinstated. Please advise if you find any mistakes.

    Regards - Rob
     
    dbf likes this.
  5. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    if it helps there are obvious BEF causualties within these dates in Ramsgate and Dover St James
     
  6. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    I appreciate that Drew. I wonder however how members of the BEF got to get as far as the Netherlands when after 14 May 1940 the last army member left Dutch soil. I do however appreciate the chance of washed up bodies of British soldiers on our beaches, although it wouldn't make much sense to me. The Dunkirk-UK evacuation route was much to the south and one would expect currents to move away from the north rather than the other way round. But as I said, the pdf shows no Dutch sites, so I cannot cross check the references. I would gladly do so by the way, should it be desired.


    Many were washed north along the Dutch Coast and as far as Germany with "dunkirk" burials in Germany
     
  7. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    A quick trawl through my CWGC register books gives me a total of 19 BEF era casualties buried in Germany and a total of 18 buried in The Netherlands ( NOT including the Guards casualties around the Hook )

    There are also unidentified bodies which are clearly BEF troops too
     
  8. ramacal

    ramacal 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA Patron

    if it helps there are obvious BEF causualties within these dates in Ramsgate and Dover St James

    I know that there quite a few at these two places, but once back in the UK, a lot of men who died of wounds, were buried in their hometowns. Having done a download using the new search engine from the CWGC, I now have a list of all casualties from the period my original spreadsheet covered, not just the places and numbers of men buried.

    As a result, I now have almost 13,500 casualties which potentially includes men who died after evacuation back to the UK. It needs to be thoroughly checked before I post a revised pdf. I am committed to finishing other projects before I do this, so it will be a while.
     
  9. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    The Dunkirk memorial goes up to 1945, there are examples in the low countries of men who died after the June period in Hospital, would you include them ? If it helps I have most of the paper registers to cover The Netherlands, Germany, and the low Countries and Northern France and have notes on dates on unidentified graves if they help, many are way pre internet from my youth I will warn you and some have faded but for example De Panne cem reads :

    Unknown 3 canadian soldiers 11-9-42
    Airman RAF 29-5-40
    soldier 28-11-40, 31-5-40 x 7 ind
    RE 31-5-40
    soldier 31-5-40
    Soldier 39-45
    Cpl E Yorks 31-5-40

    etc

    PS I don't think it matters how long we have to wait, its valuable and you have done a fine job so far that PDF is really helpful
     
  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    The Dunkirk memorial goes up to 1945


    They are on a seperate thread in the 1940 section. They are men who served with the BEF and died whilst being a PoW.

    The ones in Germany that have May/June 1940 dates of death or earlier were probably captured and died of wounds in a hospital after being evacuated towards the rear. I posted about a officer (Norfolks I think) wounded on the Saar Front whilst on patrol and buried in Germany who's date of death is January 1940.
     
  11. ramacal

    ramacal 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA Patron

    The Dunkirk memorial goes up to 1945, there are examples in the low countries of men who died after the June period in Hospital, would you include them ? If it helps I have most of the paper registers to cover The Netherlands, Germany, and the low Countries and Northern France and have notes on dates on unidentified graves if they help, many are way pre internet from my youth I will warn you and some have faded but for example De Panne cem reads :

    Unknown 3 canadian soldiers 11-9-42
    Airman RAF 29-5-40
    soldier 28-11-40, 31-5-40 x 7 ind
    RE 31-5-40
    soldier 31-5-40
    Soldier 39-45
    Cpl E Yorks 31-5-40

    etc

    PS I don't think it matters how long we have to wait, its valuable and you have done a fine job so far that PDF is really helpful

    I have highlighted the sentences in my first post. All casualties on the Dunkirk Memorial are included.

    If you have any info on the unidentified graves, it would be fantastic to put a name to them, particularly for relatives. I'm sure this would have happened by now, but they are commemorated on the Dunkirk Memorial.

    As and when the spreadsheet has been completed, you are welcome to review it and amend it yourself. It will never be an accurate piece of research due to the numbers of variables thrown up by the period of the campaign.
     
  12. Sussex by the Sea

    Sussex by the Sea Senior Member

    Is there a list of wounded personnel who were evacuated to casualty clearance stations? My grandfather was wounded on the 22 May (2 Royal Sussex) he was evacuated to a CCS then went to Wheatley Hospital in the UK. His Brother in 5 Royal Sussex was killed the day before 21 May.
     
  13. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Is there a list of wounded personnel who were evacuated to casualty clearance stations? My grandfather was wounded on the 22 May (2 Royal Sussex) he was evacuated to a CCS then went to Wheatley Hospital in the UK. His Brother in 5 Royal Sussex was killed the day before 21 May.

    I've not seen anything close to the info you are looking for. I've only copied a few RAMC files covering 1940 though.

    In my experience Nominal Rolls are as rare as hen's teeth in 1940 files-considering what was happening I guess we should be very happy with what there is available.

    Your best bet would be to check the RAMC unit files related to 44 Div as a starter but even then it can be a bit hit and miss as men were all over the place during May 1940.
     
  14. Sussex by the Sea

    Sussex by the Sea Senior Member

    Thanks Drew, Where would i find the RAMC files for 44 Div, 1940, would it be Kew?

    Steve
     
  15. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Yep, Do you know the units?
     
  16. Sussex by the Sea

    Sussex by the Sea Senior Member

    Hi Drew,
    2nd Battalion Royal Sussex Regiment.
     
  17. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Sorry, I ment the RAMC units within the Div. I'll let you know if your unsure.
     
  18. Sussex by the Sea

    Sussex by the Sea Senior Member

    Sorry, I ment the RAMC units within the Div. I'll let you know if your unsure.


    He was taken to No 3 CCS then on to Wheatley in Oxfordshire, i am not sure which RAMC unit manned No 3 CCS.
     
  19. researchingreg

    researchingreg Well-Known Member

    Are you asking for war dead that you do not know about, which would be difficult as how can we tell. For instance is this the sort of thing you want, which I expect you know about as he is CWGC listed.

    Example: Pte (Dvr) Thomas Henry Lane T/109614 RASC age 19, Grave F.16, Adinkerke Military Cemetery.

    At approximately 08.30 on 28th May 1940 the road at Adinkirke was congested for 3 or 4 miles; therefore an ambulance convoy was diverted onto a side track towards Moines and during a bombing and machine gun attack by German aircraft two ambulances of 6th MAC RASC were blown off the road into dykes filled with water Killing Dvr T. Lane and wounding other drivers and already wounded personnel in the ambulances were wounded again by machine gun bullets.
     
  20. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Rob - Can I be a pain? Any chance you could upload those excellent lists in Word? I've hit many of those cemeteries on the list on my last trip but I can't edit the downloads in the Pdf format.

    Cheers
    Andy
     

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