3 H.A.A. Regt. Royal Artillery

Discussion in 'Royal Artillery' started by Mavis Williams, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Hi Everyone, Can anyone help me to find out what happened tp Arthur please?
    Service Number 1427449
    Died Between 02/03/1942 and 03/03/1942
    Aged 29
    3 H.A.A. Regt. Royal Artillery

    Son of George and Alice Shackleton; husband of Priscilla Annie Shackleton, of Shotton, Cheshire.

    Commemorated at SINGAPORE MEMORIAL
    I wondered if you could help me make out what happened as he died at sea, yet he was in a Prisoner of war camp for years.
    Any help to tell Arthur's story would be gratefully received.
    Kind regards, Mavis
    ThomasWW2 likes this.
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    What makes you think he was in a pow camp for years if he died in 1942 just a month after Singapore was captured ?

    Edit. Why have you started another thread on him . You already have one. Attestation date
  3. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    "he died at sea, yet he was in a prisoner of war camp for years."
    On what are you basing this statement? He certainly wasn't a prisoner of war for years as Singapore only fell on 15 Feb 42. If the dying at sea is correct, it may be that he had escaped from Singapore to Sumatra and was on an evacuation ship from somewhere like Padang, many of which were sunk. Having said that the Royal Artillery list from Singapore lists him with the Notation OVL? (Overland ?), if he had escaped I would have expected it to say M (Missing). The answer may lie in the files WO 361/247 and 361/249 (3rd HAA Missing personnel) but unfortunately I don't have copies.

    Edit: Sorry post crossed with Owen's
  4. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    I am so sorry, Owen, I am confused I confess, I think I am doing too much research!!! I am attaching the Casualty Card and some of the Casualty lists. I think that the Casualty card saying at sea and the casualty lists made me think that he died in a camp confused me, as I have no idea about Army really. Apologies for saying he was a prisoner of war for years, mixing him up with another of my soldiers. Also when I was trying to find out what the 3rd H.A.A. were doing there. I thought they were in the Uk :-
    3rd Anti-Aircraft Division (United Kingdom) 3rd Anti-Aircraft Division (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
    The 3rd Anti-Aircraft Division was an air defense formation of the Territorial Army, part of the British Army, created in the period of tension before the outbreak of World War II. It defended Scotland and Northern Ireland during the early part of the war.

    I really am sorry if I have caused confusion, my apologies to the Forum. Thanks for the correction too. Kindest regards, Mavis

    Attached Files:

  5. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member


    He was in 3rd H A A Regiment not 3rd A A Division.

  6. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Don't get confused with the place of death being Malaya. This refers to Malaya Command, which encompasses the Far East Theatre of War, and doesn't necessarily mean Malaya, as in the country. There must be some information out there to establish why the Casualty Card is marked 'at Sea' finding it is another matter. The Missing Personnel files show the length to which the authorities went to establish what happened to missing people and these files can be very large.
    For the future you may care to take a note of Royal Artillery 1939-45 this shows all the RA Regiments in WW2 and shows how careful you have to be with the Regiment's title. You will see that as well as the 3rd Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment there were many other 3rd Regiments - Field Artillery, Medium Artillery, Heavy Artillery, Super Heavy Artillery and Light Anti-Aircraft Artillery.

  7. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Thanks so much Tim, as I was looking I could see some "Heavy" etc., etc., and as I have had nothing to do with the Army, I didn't understand, as really it's the man I am researching, to tell his story, but of course where he was and in what Regiment was also part of it, so it is a struggle sometimes. I have Bookmarked the page and have Cut & Pasted it into my folder for Regiments for future reference. I think it was the Casualty Card that set me off, as usually the Casualty List usually states KIA, DOW, POW etc., and perhaps wrongly, I presume that they died on land. So I was conflicted, - where did he die? Much appreciate your patience. and I know that I am researching a lot of men, as I need to complete the list, but I may have done bit of mixing my men up as well! Thanks so much, Kind regards, Mavis
  8. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Thank you too Steve. - Mavis
  9. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Just to add, Arthur Shackleton listed as being in 11 Battery 3HAA.
  10. Patwalker

    Patwalker Junior Member

    Dear Mavis, Following on from your post addressed to me. You seem to have a lot of info but mixed up and confusing the search. 3 AA Div was UK based. It would seem he may have been in 11 Bty of 3 HAA.
    My book was about 6th HAA Regt who had three Batteries numbered 3,12 and 15 and he did not feature in my book or researches on this unit.. There are quite a lot of units starting with the number 3 from main units to attached such as signals or searchlights. You have to be very sure which he was in if you wish to follow up his career.
    Noting his date of death seems to suggest he was in Java and may have been killed there..
    I think the records show he died in Malaya Command area and the 'at sea' bit has been corrected later.Malaya command encompassed the whole of Sumatra, Java etc not just the country of Malaya.
    If he died in Mar 1942 then he could never have been in a POW camp `for years`.so you need to confirm where this detail came from.. Your best bet is to try and acquire his service records from Historical Disclosures in Scotland. Though there is no guarantee they will show very much they may reveal a little more of his service travels.
    If he was in Java and died there, as so many did, there was so much confusion at the time that records in many cases were compiled shortly after and this may explain the date of death not being accurately known, hence the 2/3 Mar 1942
    I wish you luck with your searches and can confirm there are on the forum many who are far better at researching than I and I am sure they will unlock the details of your man once accurate details about him are available.
    Patrick Walker
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  11. Enigma1003

    Enigma1003 Member

    In the 3 HAA Regimental File,(corrected from 6 HAA) it appears his location or whereabouts are totally unknown, as it states " ? Not Thai"
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
    Owen likes this.
  12. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Thank you Tim and Patrick, yes I was confused, but thanks to you all, I think I am getting there now. Kind regards - Mavis
  13. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Re: The Casualty Form. Whilst the 'at Sea' has been deleted from the Theatre or Country of death entry, the place of death remains as 'at Sea'. Date of death two weeks after the Fall of Singapore suggests that he got to Sumatra/Java and the 'at Sea' suggests that he was on an evacuation ship from there which was attacked. Either the ship was sunk and he drowned or he was killed in the attack.
    Enigma - Do you not mean 3 HAA Regimental File?

  14. Enigma1003

    Enigma1003 Member

    Tim, Yes, 3 HAA now corrected
  15. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Thank you Tim for the clarification. You have all gone the extra mile for me again, thanks again. Mavis
  16. ThomasWW2

    ThomasWW2 Member

    Dear Enigma, do you. have other pages of the 3 HAA Regimental File? I am looking for my uncle. Please let me know. Thanks
  17. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Can you post his name? There are other files that he might appear on.

    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  18. ThomasWW2

    ThomasWW2 Member

    Hi Tim:

    Serjeant Vernon Thomas 11th Battery, 3 HAA, Captured Singapore and then on to Saigon
  19. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

    Thomas WO361:2101.jpg Thomas, I've got the BRE roll from WO361 which has one line and a date of departure ( 4.4.1942 ) from Singapore which you seem to know, also the address of his contact in the UK. This may well be the "regimental roll" you refer to. If someone can find the IJA card from FMP it should give further details if you haven't seen it. We can explain if these initials are difficult to understand. Service number 845049. WO361/247 and WO361/249 may have further information, but I only have WO361/2101 which is the roll.

    Last edited: Dec 18, 2020
    Tricky Dicky, ThomasWW2 and timuk like this.
  20. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    This is the entry from the BRE RA Roll, which confirms previous information:
    This is Vernon's Japanese Index Card:
    There is no information on the reverse except a release date of 13 Sep 45. This is probably not his exact date of release.
    He appears on various other lists but none seem to add any further information.
    He left Singapore on 4 Apr 42 on the Nissyo Maru for Saigon under the command of Lt Col F E Hugonin (CO 3HAA). Although Lt Col Hugonin with a Party left Saigon for the Thai Burma Railway in Jun 43 it seems Vernon remained in Saigon.
    This is taken from the list of FEPOWs
    and shows Vernon was released on 2 Sep 45. The notation TH = Thailand but this also covered Saigon.
    I cannot see a Liberation Questionnaire on the COFEPOW site so presume he didn't complete one.
    On release it is most likely that he was flown to Rangoon, train to Colombo and then ship to UK.


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