228040 John Holland SAUNDERS, 1 Troop, 80 Assault Squadron, Royal Engineers

Discussion in 'Royal Engineers' started by Deacs, Nov 1, 2011.

  1. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    No my friend you are not stuck -- it seems that you really need to know the date of birth for so from here we have 2 courses of action:

    1. Wait to see what CL1 can find out - if that does not provide an answer

    2. Contact the Registrar at Reading - you may be able to order a copy of his birth cert online or you can phone them and order one using the details as they appear in post #20

    General enquiries - 0118 937 3787 (0044 118 937 3787)

    CL1 likes this.
  2. I don't really need to know, but now that I've started I have a hard time stopping.

    I guess Deacs would like to know as well, but he seems to be on holiday...

    And I would like to know whether I was correct in quoting his birthplace as the Netherlands, too. :D

    Deacs and Tricky Dicky like this.
  3. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    I know the feeling

  4. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    Berkshire Birth indexes for the years: 1920
    Surname - Forename(s) - Sub-District - Registers At
    SAUNDERS - John Holland - St Giles - Reading

    As TD says, this is only approximate. I was born in December 1953 but my birth was registered in Jan/Feb/Mar, 1954.
    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  5. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Earley St Peters Church confirmed they do not hold any information oh JHS
    Deacs likes this.
  6. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    Hi Michel sorry I can't help you with the date of birth and Holland being place of birth, I can remember you saying that but sorry I can't remember where you got the info from.

    Regards Mike.
  7. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    Looking at a family tree that I shared my photos of John with a few years ago the Holland name came from John's father William's mams maiden name was Holland.

  8. Henk Z

    Henk Z Member

    I am new on this forum, and i have a question ?
    I read that there were 5 LVT,s on the LCT mk 4 with the number 712.
    I am modeling a LCT mk 4 with LVT (scale 1/35), I only can get 4 of them on board.
    Where was standing number 5 ?
    I have steen pictures only with 4 of them.
    Sorry for my Englisch writing, my computer Translate everything in Dutch.

    I am een volenteer by Bevrijdingsmuseum Zeeland in Nieuwdorp. The have een LVT scale 1/1, weasels en other vehicles.
    CL1 and Aixman like this.
  9. Hello Henk,

    Welcome to the forum!

    You can actually load up to 6 LVsT in the tank deck of an LCT(4): two ranks of two vehicles side by side aft, and then two more vehicles, one following the other, loaded centrally fore. The same principle was used on LCT(4) of the Breaching Teams in Operation Overlord, with AVsRE/Flails in lieu of LVsT:




    In an LCT(4) the maximum loads for LVT + Weasel combinations are as follows:

    6 LVsT + 4 Weasels
    5 LVsT + 8 Weasels
    4 LVsT + 10 Weasels

    Once the number of LVsT has been chosen, you can then fill the available spaces each side of the foremost LVsT with the much smaller Weasels.

    All of these combinations were used at Westkapelle, although never with more than 7 Weasels.

    If you can fit only four LVsT on board your LCT(4), this means that the LCT is underscale or the LVsT overscale, or both!

    Usable width of tank deck in LCT(4) = 25' 3"
    Width of LVT(2) or LVT(4) as used for loading purposes = 10' 8"
    Thus, width of 2xLVT(2) or LVT(4) = 21' 4"
    There remains a space of 3' 11" / 3 = around 1' 4" each side of the two LVsT loaded side by side, which is more than sufficient.

    Here is a view of the tank deck of LCT 839, which carried five LVsT: the one on the left is an LVT(4), and to its right side we can see the track guard of an LVT(2). Ahead of this pair of LVsT is LVT(4) call sign 3C, loaded centrally. There were two more LVsT afore 3C:
    1969_09_053 LVT4 3C on board LCT 829.jpg


    P.S. Since you have the luxury of having access to a real LVT, you can check its actual overall width. Lucky you!
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  10. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Michel - nice to see your skills have not diminished in the feet & inches area 10/10

  11. mark abbott

    mark abbott Junior Member

    A simply superb thread. Very many thanks.

    Buteman and CL1 like this.
  12. Henk Z

    Henk Z Member

    Tanks for the picture, I ditnot see this in the film. I only sas pictures of LVT in onze Row.
  13. Henk Z

    Henk Z Member

    741A5B2C-24CD-4368-A69B-79925B417000.jpeg 62712968-0FDA-4F8F-B12B-CFE74E971FC1.jpeg 3109FFE9-C4F1-4E5C-B9FE-49ED54F13FEB.jpeg

    Thanks for the picture, i through that LVT can not manoeuvre on board with full load.
    The picture you posted say the can.
    Tolbooth and Deacs like this.
  14. Impressive build Henk!

    Do you plan to portray a specific LCT during Operation INFATUATE II? As far as I could find out, there were only two LCT loaded with three LVT(4) and two LVT(2): LCT 1133 (Serial 13), which also had four Weasels, and LCT 839 (Serial 16), without any Weasel.

    Aixman likes this.
  15. Henk Z

    Henk Z Member

    I do not now, witch LCT I am gone build.
    I have 2 other LVT 4 witch I am buiding but the are not ready. these where.
    I think I want to build somthing from the 11 RTR with "STEENDORP" but I do not now if the where used and on which LCT.
    Perhaps LCT 712 from this story.
    It would be 5 LVsT and .. Weasels.
    A other nice LCT would be the LCT witch transported the LVT4 ambulance "SPHINX" 4E.
    But I do not have loading tabels.
  16. Henk,

    If I understand correctly, you have a total of five LVT(4) plus two LVT(2)?

    This gives you the choice to portray pretty much any LCT(4) and her load at Westkapelle.

    Forum member Tolbooth posted the Landing Table here:
    Updated Resource - Operation Infatuate Landing Table and Beaching Diagram V2

    However, the Hull number and/or precise load of every Serial is not known.

    Aixman likes this.
  17. Henk Z

    Henk Z Member

    thanks for post.

    I have in total now:
    4 LVT4
    2x LVT2 (1x with hatches en 1x without)
    2 LVT4 in building progres
    5x polsten guns.(already 1 on LVT4)
    1x medical kit

    in order 1x Weasel (very expensive kit)

    for the figures various haeds from Hornet

    lot of work for the 75th anniversary this year.
  18. Since I still could not find from where took it that John Holland SAUNDERS was born in the Netherlands, I have edited the first post in my thread about him to remove this mention.

    This should normally result in my finally finding where this came from, so that I'll have to edit my post once again :D

    Deacs likes this.
  19. reinaart

    reinaart Active Member

    Regarding the two pics of LVT4 Esquay posted by Michel on the first page, both these pics were taken in Middelburg from the "Havendijk"/"Punt". The location is still easy to recognize :


    I'm looking for some specific info about the 4 LVTs aboard LCT 611 (29) and the 5 LVT's aboard LCT 1068 (27). What type were these LVTs (2 or 4 ?) and perhaps something is known about vehicle names/registration numbers. I would also like to know which shipyard built LCT 611.

    I also wonder about whether LCT Mk 4s had rubbing strakes at the bottom of the hull sides. These are not shown on my 1/35 LCT4 plan but they are present on the Heller 1/400 model .


    Buteman likes this.
  20. Arjan,

    Thanks for identifying the location of the pics of 'ESQUAY'.

    uboat.net gives LCT 611 as built by Motherwell Bridge (Meadowside, Scotland, U.K.), but I have nothing precise on her or 1068's load on 1 Nov 44 though.

    I am not sure that I understand your question about the rubbing strakes. LCT(4) normally had just one line of them each side. See for example LCT 524 on a view similar to the last photo on my post #4 above:
    524 LCT(4) N22 (1526) 6 Jun pm prob.jpg

    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019

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