228040 John Holland SAUNDERS, 1 Troop, 80 Assault Squadron, Royal Engineers

Discussion in 'Royal Engineers' started by Deacs, Nov 1, 2011.

  1. DARCYC

    DARCYC New Member

    Hello everyone -Observations from color pictures of AVREs boarding landing craft- Deep wading stacks on 1D are of a different color from tank and other stacks. 1D letters in white outline only. Grey life-raft on top of log carpet or is it a fascine bundle. Red and white life rings or floats near engine deck. Tubing, probably Wade charge frame/platforms attached to side air inlets. Extra wheels and springs attached to rear deck in different orientation. Extra long cable for removing beach obstacles attached to side of hull. Wire reel, ammo cans for stowage attached to hull sides and turret, camouflage net and tarps on turret, Other photographs of 1D show Jerry cans, extra track segments on hull, details of log carpet platform, tank's markings on front plate, white star on turret top. What is the serial number of Captain Saunders' AVRE 1D? Number starts with 172XXX. Is it 172136? Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  2. Welcome to the forum!

    Thanks for these observations. I agree with most of them, but have the following comments:
    This is interesting. At first glance I thought it was just one more chespale bundle (small fascine) attached lengthwise, same as at the rear of 1C, but now I can see that it may look like the side of a collapsible boat, especially since no rope holding the bundle is visible.
    However, when looking at the various stills of 1D and 1E one can see that it cannot be such a boat.
    Or do you mean another object perhaps?

    These are mine gap markers. See:
    Allied WWII AFV Discussion Group: Churchill AVRE "Cheetah" Q. again
    and Trux' post:
    ROYAL ENGINEERS - Introduction

    It's 172136. See the full sized version (right click on image, then "Display Image" or any similar choice) of the last pic in Post #4 above:
    John Holland SAUNDERS (228040) - 1 Troop, 80 Assault Squadron Royal Engineers

    Michel
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
  3. DARCYC

    DARCYC New Member

    Hello Michel- Thank you for the clarification. AVREs fascinate me and the color footage was an outstanding source of information. The grey objects are very uniform in color and appear folded, could they be some type of fabric carpet roll? Thank you.- CD
     
  4. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  5. Sorry for the long delay in replying.

    They do indeed look like folded fabric with some strengthening poles or tubes inside, so maybe a small version of coir carpet bundles, but none of this type is mentioned anywhere while chespale bundles are, so I really do not know. o_O

    Michel
     
  6. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    John you are not forgotten Rip.
     
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  7. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    Remembering today :poppy:
     
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  8. 509thPIB

    509thPIB Well-Known Member

    d6050955039a3ac8f343dec6d797bc98.jpg
     
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  9. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    20181130_111503 (1).jpg
    My Uncle Rob and his visit to see where Captain John Holland Saunders was buried in Bergen-Op-Zoom, he found it very emotional after finally seeing John's grave.
    RIP John you will never be forgotten by the Deacon clan.
     
  10. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    Parents:

    1939 REGISTER TRANSCRIPTION
    Saunders Household (4 People)
    56 Church Road, Wokingham R.D., Berkshire
    NAME - DOB - OCCUPATION
    William H Saunders - 16 Oct 1892 - Production & Progress Engineer
    Nellie H Saunders - 23 Apr 1891 - Unpaid Domestic Duties
    John D Jackman - 25 Nov 1927 - At School
    Sorry, this record is officially closed.

    Saunders_01.jpg

    Saunders_02.jpg
     
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  11. Thank you for this info harkness.

    Could you find Capt John Holland SAUNDERS' precise date of birth? I only have it as 'around 1920' (because of his age of 24 on his death on 1st November 1944).

    I could not find his date of birth in the London Gazette or the Army List.

    I suppose that his place of birth (in the Netherlands) does not make things any easier...

    Michel
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
  12. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Not exact but shows 2nd quarter (Apr/May/Jun)
    England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1916-2007
    Name: John H Saunders
    Registration Date: 1920
    Registration district: Reading
    Inferred County: Berkshire
    Re-registration Year: 1920
    Mother's Maiden Name: Harwood
    Volume Number: 2c
    Page Number: 835

    This is the date his birth was registered, he could have been born in March 1920 and then registered in April, cant recall what the law says re the time it should take for someone to register a birth, but I would guess the earliest would be March

    TD
     
  13. Excellent TD! This also tells us his mother's maiden name. Apparently the place of birth is not part of the information recorded?

    Michel

    P.S. Maybe Michael (Deacs) will go look up the Birth Registers at Reading some day
     
  14. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    I would assume from the certificate he was born in Reading, Berkshire and so he was registered in the UK - ahh I note in your post that you think he was born in Holland - what makes you think that ?? - hes buried there

    TD
     
  15. Good question! I must have read it somewhere, or else Deacs told me about it? Let's see if I can find out again...

    This still makes sense as I assume that his parents would have wanted to register his birth in their home district?

    Another website gives the date as "June 1920", and provides the Book and Page numbers:
    FreeBMD District Info

    Michel
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
  16. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Michel

    I suspect that BMD is saying June as that the last month of the second quarter, the only real way to find out his real date of birth - which would normally be on his death cert - but hes CWGC - will be to buy a copy of his brth certificate from Reading Registrars Office - that way you will know to the day

    The image of his record is entitled:
    1920 Q2-Apr-May-Jun S

    So unless BMD have obtained a copy of his birth certificate I very much doubt they can narrow it down to June.

    TD
     
  17. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    I will call the church tomorrow ( where the memorial is) to see if they have a register of his baptism ( if he was) which might give a dob
     
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  18. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    I called the church and they will check their records and get back to me but they said they dont think they hold them that far back

    regards
    Clive
     
  19. TD,
    I suspect that you are right. In another page BMD give the reliability of June being the month of the birth as "99%", which I interpret as confessing that they do not know for sure :)
    I still cannot find where I got the information about the birth place as the Netherlands. Possibly from a genealogy website which I failed to save. One might think I confused it with his middle name "Holland", but I am (almost) certain that it did not come from that but from some other source :D
    Deacs, please come to the rescue, I'm stuck! :wacko:

    Michel
     
  20. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    If the church does not get back to me by Monday they dont have the dob.
    All their older records are now held here The Berkshire Record Office
    regards
    Clive
     

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