167 Brigade at Anzio

Discussion in 'Italy' started by Tom OBrien, Dec 16, 2019.

  1. Tom OBrien

    Tom OBrien Senior Member

    Can anyone help with a map of the Moletta river sector of the Anzio beachhead? I'm trying to work out the positions occupied by 168 (doh - I meant 167 Bde, sorry) Brigade of 56 Division when it arrived in mid-Feb just prior to the German counter-offensive.

    I just looked at the war diary for 9th Royal Fusiliers for Feb 44 (WO170/1391) and saw this entry for 15 Feb 44: “Bde plan was now for 9 R.F. to take over front on line of MOLETTO [sic] river from 815311 to 826317”.

    Regards

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2019
  2. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    Tom,

    "I'm trying to work out the positions occupied by 168 Brigade of 56 Division when it arrived in mid-Feb just prior to the German counter-offensive."

    Sorry to answer your question with a question: just a quick one to clarify if you meant 168 not 167? Your title refers to 167 Brigade and also you mention 9 RF : hence my question...

    Although their war diaries are not held at Kew - possibly lost in the chaos of the bridgehead. I believe that 1st Bn LIR, and the rest of 168 Brigade, were out of the line resting from 11th to 17th February..

    best wishes
     
  3. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Tom.

    Richard is correct. 168 Inf Bde were 1 London Scottish, 1 London Irish & 10 R Berkshires.

    Regards

    Frank
     
  4. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Tom,
    email me. I will send you the Ardea map you require. Its far to large to post.
    Regards,
    Stu.
     
  5. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Tom,

    I've emailed you a copy. If i can find a resized version, then i will post it for anyone else who may need it?

    Regards,
    Stu.;) P.s is there not one in the 168 brigade war diary for Feb/Mar 44? If it is, then it may the third copy?
     
  6. Richard Lewis

    Richard Lewis Member

  7. Tom OBrien

    Tom OBrien Senior Member

    Hello all, and many thanks for the sending of maps and links - they are massively valuable and, once again, go to show what a generous bunch of people there are on this site.

    I did actually mean 167 Bde who entered the line just before the German counter-offensive started. I think a coy (at least) of London Scottish helped them out at one point.

    I need to work through what I’ve been sent but will try to post up my findings over the next few weeks/months.

    all the best, and thanks again,

    Tom
     
  8. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    A correction on my part: the map i was talking about is in WO 170/628 HQ 168 LONDON INFANTRY BRIGADE MAR 44.

    Never seen it on the splendid website that Richard has provided when it comes to McMaster University of Texas. I could be wrong?
    Nor have i seen the other that i will post. Both are the FOURTH EDITION ( COLOURED) SHEET 158 IV. I'm sure i was informed that the second one came from the 1 Loyals ? I can't see it in there war diaries or recall seeing it on any other of the websites that cover the Italian Campaign. It would be interesting to find out if possible?

    Richard, thanks for providing your link to Topographic Maps. I've downloaded it.

    Click on images if required?
    72dpi00221.jpg rsz_anzio_551__mb.jpg
    Regards,
    Stu.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
  9. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    167 Infantry Brigade went into the line on 15th February and were immediately hit by German counterattacks on the 16th (whether by design or coincidence). These fell heavily on 7 OBLI and 8 RF - 9 RF got away lightly in comparison - I'm away at the moment but off the top of my head they were only the left flank abutting the US units that were holding the Moletta line the sea. 1 LS did commit a company to a counterattack to regain the positions lost. Again off the top of my head this was to support 7 OBLI in their attempts to extricate some of their sub-units that had been cut off.

    PS if you map all the company positions as per the WDs you will see how badly positioned the British defences were and how susceptible they were to infiltration tactics.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
  10. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Richard,

    can you please clarify what you mean by (Although their war diaries are not held at Kew?) Which Brigades? 1 London Irish Rifles is missing for the month of Feb has i have been informed. I don't have January or March. Looks has if 1LIR may have lost the month of Feb in the chaos of the campaign, or its lost in kew? It could also be mixed up in another diary? I'm in the middle of down loading a few diaries of 56 Division for Jan-Mar 44.

    Regards,
    Stu.
     
  11. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    1 LIR is missing February. Jan and Feb are there.
     
  12. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    On my order for the New Year. Can i have Jan and Mar in time?

    Gary, thanks for your time. Its most appreciated. I do hope you come across the missing month? I know that you have done it in the past. Probably a stroke of luck. I'm pleased that you found the missing months of 2 North Staffs.

    I don't get down to Kew & respect anyone who does any copies on my behalf.

    R
    Stu.
     
  13. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    Gary has confirmed that the Feb war diary for 1 LIR is missing...Jan/March-Dec '44 are there at Kew.....

    I did a find a misfiled London Scottish file a few years ago at Kew and I was able "to bring it back to life". TNA also had an annoying habit of indexing the LIR Second World War files as 18th Bn London Regiment so anything is possible but in the case of the missing Feb '44 file a re-find is unlikely... that being said, someone must have had a good memory as the Regimental history for Feb '44 is quite detailed
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2019
  14. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    Richard,

    Yes, it is probably out there somewhere...maybe still on the desk of those compling the regimental history! :) A fate that I think has befallen many of the appendices missing from unit WDs. Or it could have been misfiled waiting for a chance rediscovery.

    Interestingly, the 2/7 Queens WD for February 1944 also isn't the original but a photostat copy (in negative).
     
    bexley84 likes this.
  15. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    It weren't me y'honour......it was written in 1948 or so. I've been through the papers in the backroom of the LIR museum a few times and a copy is not there and of course the museum moved from the Duke of York's about 20 years ago..so.. who knows?
     

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