11th Battalion Parachute regiment

Discussion in 'Airborne' started by wtid45, May 25, 2010.

  1. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    There he is :) welcome Dre
     
  2. Dre

    Dre Member

    There he is :) welcome Dre
    Thank you Phillip old sport ;)
     
  3. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

    To my knowledge I know of 2 sides that are currently working on books on the 11th Battalion the Parachute Regiment.
    Welcome Dre, now either you like Rap music or thats a anagram of a name:unsure:;) as for the above can you tell us more? regards, Jason.
     
  4. Medic7922

    Medic7922 Senior Member

    I think its also worth referring to the book "Arnhem Doctor" The book written by Capt Stuart Mawson who was the Medical Officer of the 11th Paras.
    Mawson gives some insight into the action's of the Battalion during the Battle of Arnhem,
     
  5. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

    Steve your not wrong Arnhem Doctor, is the only book I know of to date that touches upon the 11th Battalion through the eyes of someone with the battalion.
     
  6. Dre

    Dre Member

    [​IMG]Welcome Dre, now either you like Rap music or thats a anagram of a name:unsure:;) as for the above can you tell us more? regards, Jason.
    Hello Jason,
    I do like rap music and I bet your thinking of Doctor Dre :)my initials are D.R.E. hence the name...

    A friend of mine and Philip had started work on a book on the 11th Parachute Battalion back in the early 1990's, he has collected a large number of accounts and photographs from veterans of the 11th Bt over the past years.
    He was also a member of the Arnhem Battle Research Group back in the early 1990's, he has worked together with Philip on a battle study on the 11th Bt back in the mid 1990's but he was never able to finish the work due to private circumstances, so work on the manuscript he had started on stopped for some years, only a small booklet exists that he and Phillip made but this was never published.
    Others offered to buy the work from him but he refused for his own good reasons which I am not going to discuss, that was his insight in the matter.
    I over the years showed great interest in my friends work and offered to continue the work on the book, after a few years had faded my good friend sold his work to me and I together with help of Philip Reinders, James Daley and Matt Yates continued, we bound forces 2.5 years ago and are working on the manuscript, Roll of Honour etc.
    I have added a jpeg for you to see, a strong reminder is that these visuals are only an example and not yet definite!
    The photographs come from my collection, these and lots of others will feature in the book but for now this is it....
    The book is called "The Short Life" Of The 11th Parachute Battalion from Palestine to Arnhem 1943-1944

    A few months ago I had a pleasant conversation with a gentleman also involved in work on a book on the 11th Parachute Battalion, he was very interested in my old friends accounts & photographs etc, he told me that he had offered to buy the work from him but the offer had been turned down.
    The gentleman was interested in the work done on the 11th Bt as an acquaintance of his an ex Dutch Army Colonel had written a manuscript on C.S.M. G. Gatland 11th Parachute Bt ventures during his Arnhem battle, the manuscript written by the Colonel was not a full story on the 11th Bt but focused mainly on George Gatland.
    I am not sure but I think the Colonel started on his manuscript around 2000 could be late 1990's!?
    The manuscript was then read for publishing but after its examination the publishers thought it best to cover the whole story of the 11th Parachute Battalion instead of just C.S.M. G. Gatland, a wider story was suggested.
    Then I believe the colonel's work came to a stop due to I think his health, I recall that the gentleman told me that David Truesdale had translated the colonel's manuscript and had continued working on the whole story of the 11th Parachute Battalion and put it into writing.
    I think the publishers are busy with his work, but don't pin me down on that!
    We also discussed that it was sad that we didn't find out about each other sooner as we could have joined forces, it was now a bit to late as
    I replied, I had invested years of research into the footsteps of the 11th Parachute Battalion and all the accounts I have and had also started on a manuscript working together with Philip, Matt and James.
    David Truesdale had finished work on his manuscript in I believe 2006-2008, you might ask why not join up now before one is published, I think it comes down to writers name and status...
    The only option left to me was to either sell my records etc or lend them out for publishing with a notification in the "other" book..
    I think this sums it all up for you Jason.


    Regards,
    Dre ;)
     
    Paul Pariso and wtid45 like this.
  7. Dre

    Dre Member

    I think its also worth referring to the book "Arnhem Doctor" The book written by Capt Stuart Mawson who was the Medical Officer of the 11th Paras.
    Mawson gives some insight into the action's of the Battalion during the Battle of Arnhem,
    Very true I agree on that, sad thing for me is, I had contacted Mr. Stuart Mawson not long before he passed away, I had asked Stuart if he would be honoured to write the Foreword for my book.
    He replied that he would be delighted to do so but a few months later after our conversation he passed away, I still have a written postcard of him and his daughter this is now very important to me.

    Dre
     
  8. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

    DRE, I did have said singer in mind but did also wonder if it was initials! As for the book you have mentioned as a work in progress its very impresive! I like the cover and thats a pic I have not seen before, not surprising given there is so little known as yet about the 11th lets hope your book and that of David Truesdales, redress the balance, it has to be said given that only recently on the forum it was discussed how some dont share Arnhem information:( with others then up you pop with this little gem of a post ;) made all the more intresting by my personal intrest involving my Dad who had some involvement with the 11th prior to Arnhem that was cut short by a Parachute accident, which along with jump records has been kindly looked into by fellow members on this forum to no avail, so if I may be so bold if you come across any ref to a George, Henry Parr, could you please let me know:) many thanks I will follow your ongoing work with much intrest! many thanks for sharing your work with us all the best, Jason.
     
  9. Dre

    Dre Member

    Hello Jason,
    thank you for your kind reply, I will search my records for the name G.H. Parr, do you have any more info for me such as Company or Platoon, or a C/O's name or any others?

    I am glad you like the artwork, credit for this goes to Matt our illustrator.

    Cheers,
    Dre
     
  10. Paul Pariso

    Paul Pariso Very Senior Member

    Dre, many thanks for your excellent post. As wtid45 says, there is so little out there on the 11th Battalion that any information that comes to light will be gratefully received. It is a shame that the work that you and your friends put in has not yet been fully completed but hopefully the upcoming book by David Truesdale will do the Battalion justice.
    Best regards..............
     
  11. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

    Hello Jason,
    thank you for your kind reply, I will search my records for the name G.H. Parr, do you have any more info for me such as Company or Platoon, or a C/O's name or any others?

    I am glad you like the artwork, credit for this goes to Matt our illustrator.

    Cheers,
    Dre
    Hello Dre, I meant those kind words most sincerly I have waited a long time for the 11th to get some attention in print and then two potential books come along at once:D as for more info very little I can add im afraid as I said Dad had a bad chute and spent time in hospital when he came out he ended up in Burma but not in a Airborne capacity thats another thread on here;). I can only tell you Dad spoke of the 11th battlion, jumping from Whitleys........which has also caused some debate for as far as I know he never went overseas until Burma:unsure: and I have been told 11 Para only used Whitleys jump training in the Middle east, I explored records of jumps at Ringway through the forum with no results for G.H Parr, and the same for parachute accidents via the very able England Phil, he also mentioned a NCO who was of German origin:unsure: who due to his methods had a accident;) as for company, platoon or names sorry mate no help really only names I remember mentioned was a Joe Banner or somthing similar that Dad spoke of.Finally from what I have worked out he joined up before July 16th 1943 as he lied about his age and that date I just gave was his 18th Birthday he intially joined the RASC, then volunteered for Para training as to what date I dont know sorry! and had his accident prior to September 1944, two things have always puzzled me did he finish his jumps:unsure:if not due to the accident how was it he spoke of being with the 11th Battlion...............and as I said the rest is another thread on here..... thats my Dad in my Avatar 4th from the left on Mandalay Hil March 1945 and another avenue of research im pursuingo_O . Sorry its not much but I once again live in hope of finding just what Dad got up to before he went to Burma many thanks in anticipation but I know its a long shot with so little to go on all the best, Jason.
     
  12. Dre

    Dre Member

    Dre, many thanks for your excellent post. As wtid45 says, there is so little out there on the 11th Battalion that any information that comes to light will be gratefully received. It is a shame that the work that you and your friends put in has not yet been fully completed but hopefully the upcoming book by David Truesdale will do the Battalion justice.
    Best regards..............
    Hello Paul,
    thank you for your reply, I am sure that David Truesdale his book will give the 11th Bt the justice it deserves.
    As for our work, were not yet in the final stages of the book but we are getting closer and closer to our end goal.


    Regards,
    Dre
     
  13. Dre

    Dre Member

    Hello Dre, I meant those kind words most sincerly I have waited a long tiime for the 11th to get some attention in print and then two potential books come along at once:D as for more info very little I can add im afraid as I said Dad had a bad chute and spent time in hospital when he came out he ended up in Burma but not in a Airborne capacity thats another thread on here;). I can only tell you Dad spoke of the 11th battlion, jumping from Whittles........which has also caused some debate for as far as I know he never went overseas until Burma:unsure: and I have been told 11 Para only used Whitleys jump training in the Middle east, I explored records of jumps at Ringway through the forum with no results for G.H Parr, and the same for parachute accidents via the very able England Phil, he also mentioned a NCO who was of German origin:unsure: who due to his methods had a accident;) as for company, platoon or names sorry mate no help really only names I remember mentioned was a Joe Banner or somthing similar that Dad spoke of.Finally from what I have worked out he joined up before July 16th 1943 as he lied about his age and that date I just gave was his 18th Birthday he intially joined the RASC, then volunteered for Para training as to what date I dont know sorry! and had his accident prior to September 1944, two things have always puzzled me did he finish his jumps:unsure:if not due to the accident how was it he spoke of being with the 11th Battlion...............and as I said the rest is another thread on here..... thats my Dad in my Avatar 4th from the left on Mandalay Hil March 1945 and another avenue of research im pursuingo_O . Sorry its not much but I once again live in hope of finding just what Dad got up to before he went to Burma many thanks in anticipation but I know its a long shot with so little to go on all the best, Jason.
    Hello Jason,
    thank you sincierly for your reply ;), I know that a lot of people have waited a long time for printed evidance to show up which featured the true story of the men of the 11th Battalion during "their" Arnhem battle.
    I am sure that David Truesdale's work and my groups work (when printed) will give a clearer picture of the battalions actions and solve some mysteries and correct written/documented errors.

    What I can tell you about jumping from old obsolete Whitley bombers the so called Flying Barn doors, is that during the ground training new recruits had to make practice jumps from dummy fuselages, the fuselage of the Dakota was used to practice the "Door exit", the fuselage of the Whitley was used to practice the "Floor exit".
    I personally have asked a few veterans of the 11th Battalion if they had ever "Rang the bell" during their parachute training, a few of them remarked with a smile "How do you know about that?" some indeed complained about a painful nose or dental injuries inflicted during exiting from the Whitley on practice jumps.
    In the later/end stages of the war the exiting through the floor way was abolished as the R.A.F. received more quantities of the preferred door exit aircraft, the c-47 Dakota.

    Training accidents did sadly occur, I will have to check my records/accounts, to see if your dad comes up, did he tell you what happened during his jump, I mean the cause of chute failure, tangled up rigging lines or even a roman candle?
    Do you know if your dad's accident happened while jumping from the tethered balloon or was it from exiting an aircraft?
    I can imagine that your dad must have been glad to still be in one piece after such a dreadful event.
    I will look into your fathers name and "Joe Banner", this could take a while as I have many accounts/records to read through.

    To possible give an answer to your question about your dad passing his parachute training I can say the following; If your dad was successful in his parachute training he would have been a qualified parachutist, and as you will know each man that passed received his Jump Wings and the maroon beret.
    The men would then be appointed to their new units in either the 1st Airborne Div or the 6th Airborne Divisions parachute regiments.
    If your dad had passed his parachute training and had become a qualified parachutist I would suggest/believe that he would have returned to his outfit or "a" parachute Regiment after he was discharged from hospital.
    By that time (guessing the state of his injuries) the 11th Parachute Battalion was disbanded after its terrible loss in men during the Arnhem battle and the remainder transferred to the 3rd Parachute Battalion in 1945.
    As your father did not return to his unit or parachute course, I think that his parachute training was probably scrapped and your dad was transferred to another branch in the British Army, in his case the other theatre of the war.
    Indeed if your father had not been badly injured there would have been a good chance that he would have gone to Arnhem with the 11th Parachute Battalion.

    A possibility to how your dad was connected with the 11th Battalion is that many of the new recruits drafted into the parachute regiment had to report to Hardwick Hall in Chesterfield, from here they were sent on to their barracks and aerodromes for their training, your dad could have been in contact with men of the 11th Battalion while he was billeted or during his training for the parachute regiment....
    But like I mentioned above, if your dad mentioned anything about jump wings and the maroon beret then you can be certain of your case that he was a paratrooper.
    If only his Service Record would be available......
    Sounds to me that you had a dad to be well proud of.

    Regards,
    Dre
     
  14. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

    Dre, I heard the expression 'Ringing the bell' from my Dad many years ago! and as far as the chute I really dont know, but I do know thinking on what Dad said that he met the Woman who packed his chute cant remember if he saw her after or if he mentioned her visiting him in Hospital, would this have happened:unsure: and going back to the Nco I mentioned who had a accident I think ther was mention of a area maybe like a Quarry or a high drop where they trained......... problem I have is remembering things Dad told me from 3 diffrent times during the war......... and putting them in the right place.Your speaking of red berets and jump wings and if Dad spoke of them well I again cant recall but I can tell you I know of Whitleys and the expression, because when I was about 14-15 we went to the Airborne museum at Browning barracks, and while looking around we were joined by a Para who poped into the museum why I dont know but he walked around with us for a bit talking with my Dad and they spoke of Whitleys and jumping through the hole.......the single chute.... and ringing the bell the Para was quit intrested to hear this and me I was awe struck here was my Dad and a flesh and blood modern day Para chatting to my Dad but fascinated as to what my Dad had to say. Sorry its all a bit vague but you never ask the right questions:( and it was not helped that after my Dad and Mum divored and he left home we never spoke for 6 years. Thanks again for any help you may offer no matter how small, Jason.
     
  15. Dre

    Dre Member

    Dre, I heard the expression 'Ringing the bell' from my Dad many years ago! and as far as the chute I really dont know, but I do know thinking on what Dad said that he met the Woman who packed his chute cant remember if he saw her after or if he mentioned her visiting him in Hospital, would this have happened:unsure: and going back to the Nco I mentioned who had a accident I think ther was mention of a area maybe like a Quarry or a high drop where they trained......... problem I have is remembering things Dad told me from 3 diffrent times during the war......... and putting them in the right place.Your speaking of red berets and jump wings and if Dad spoke of them well I again cant recall but I can tell you I know of Whitleys and the expression, because when I was about 14-15 we went to the Airborne museum at Browning barracks, and while looking around we were joined by a Para who poped into the museum why I dont know but he walked around with us for a bit talking with my Dad and they spoke of Whitleys and jumping through the hole.......the single chute.... and ringing the bell the Para was quit intrested to hear this and me I was awe struck here was my Dad and a flesh and blood modern day Para chatting to my Dad but fascinated as to what my Dad had to say. Sorry its all a bit vague but you never ask the right questions:( and it was not helped that after my Dad and Mum divored and he left home we never spoke for 6 years. Thanks again for any help you may offer no matter how small, Jason.
    Jason,
    I was watching a documentary called "The Lancaster At War" the other day and a pilot made a "funny" remark; he said that there was one lady who remarked to the men collecting their chutes: If it doens't work be sure to return it.....(or something like that)
    I hope the lady who packed your dad's chute did not tell the same joke, she would have had quiet a shock if your dad would have returned his, might explain why she visited him :D

    I think your dad's accident could have occurred in the last stages of his parachute course hence his Whitley experience!?
    When he was declared fit to return to his unit after his jumping accident, he was probably transferred to another branch, the war in Europe was coming to its close and men would be transferred to the pacific theatre to fight the Imperial Japanese Army.
    Are there any photographs about of your dad wearing his uniform/battledress dated 1943-1944!?

    Cheers,
    Dre
     
  16. Daan

    Daan Èrnemmer for life!

    Hi Dre,

    Welcome aboard!
     
  17. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique MOD

    Don't know if it's of interest but this is the 11th Battalion's War Diary for Arnhem from TNA at Kew.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Dre

    Dre Member

    Hi Dre,

    Welcome aboard!
    Hello matey ;)
     
  19. Dre

    Dre Member

    Don't know if it's of interest but this is the 11th Battalion's War Diary for Arnhem from TNA at Kew.
    Hello Paul,
    thank you for your reply, it surely is of great interest, I have the same documents but these are very old copies, the ones you show are of better quality.
    Phillip is mainly my man :) for visiting the Pro etc for records and documentation, I will ask him to bring these along when he next visits town again.
    Thank you very much for your information!

    Regards,
    Dre
     
  20. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

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