11th Battalion Parachute regiment

Hi Shell,

It's curious you should mention the 4th Airborne Division which was created as a deception formation in March of 1943. What's even more curious is the real 4th Brigade was assigned to it for a short time until being taken on by the 1st Airborne in June of 1943.

See this Wikipedia page:

British deception formations in World War II

Also check out this page at ParaData to see if it applies:

HQ 4th Parachute Brigade

As an aside my Mother also maintains she attempted a crossing of the the English Channel by swimming but was was defeated by jellyfish stings. I have yet to find any documentation recording the event.

Regards ... Chuck
Hi Chuck - will check out the links you suggested. Looking at the records I am assuming that it is 4 Division as on form B200b it is noted as "to H Q 4 Airborne Div" and on the service and casualty form it says "Posted to H.Q. 4 Airborne Div" The more I hear, the more I think I will never get to the bottom of what really happened! I questioned for a moment, first because I find these forms quite confusing and secondly, I thought that 11 battalion was in the 4th Brigade. In these matters I am trying quite hard not to be 'a bear of little brain'! I hope to scan his records soon and put them in an album on my profile. Thanks for your help.

 

Hi Shell,

It's curious you should mention the 4th Airborne Division which was created as a deception formation in March of 1943. What's even more curious is the real 4th Brigade was assigned to it for a short time until being taken on by the 1st Airborne in June of 1943.

See this Wikipedia page:

British deception formations in World War II

Also check out this page at ParaData to see if it applies:

HQ 4th Parachute Brigade

As an aside my Mother also maintains she attempted a crossing of the the English Channel by swimming but was was defeated by jellyfish stings. I have yet to find any documentation recording the event.

Regards ... Chuck
Chuck - just checked out the links - it seems to make sense for both. He did have time in Egypt and did his training, I think in Palestine. He did say he had performed operations in Crete and Cos. He was at Normandy, but we don't know with what unit. In July 43 he was attached to SBS. He was of course at Arnhem.
dad never actually got around to swimming the channel - when he was demobbed he became a life guard for a while on the beach at Blackpool!

 

Chuck - just checked out the links - it seems to make sense for both. He did have time in Egypt and did his training, I think in Palestine. He did say he had performed operations in Crete and Cos. He was at Normandy, but we don't know with what unit. In July 43 he was attached to SBS. He was of course at Arnhem.
dad never actually got around to swimming the channel - when he was demobbed he became a life guard for a while on the beach at Blackpool!
Shell see posts 32 34 and 35 may intrest you, http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/searching-someone-military-genealogy/27893-help-paratrooper-names-4.html#post309645

 

Chuck - just checked out the links - it seems to make sense for both. He did have time in Egypt and did his training, I think in Palestine. He did say he had performed operations in Crete and Cos. He was at Normandy, but we don't know with what unit. In July 43 he was attached to SBS. He was of course at Arnhem.
dad never actually got around to swimming the channel - when he was demobbed he became a life guard for a while on the beach at Blackpool!

Ok thanks Shell,

Your best bet is to put up scans of your Fathers service records. From there you can get a general timeline and members will help you with the details from each period.

You mention Cos which could possibly indicate he took part in the ill-fated battle for that island. I believe the link Jason has posted leads to a photo of 11 Para members on Cos - ?

The SBS attachment in July 43 throws me for a bit of a loop ...?

Battle of Kos

... Chuck

 

Ok thanks Shell,

Your best bet is to put up scans of your Fathers service records. From there you can get a general timeline and members will help you with the details from each period.

You mention Cos which could possibly indicate he took part in the ill-fated battle for that island. I believe the link Jason has posted leads to a photo of 11 Para members on Cos - ?

The SBS attachment in July 43 throws me for a bit of a loop ...?

Battle of Kos

... Chuck
This may help, Most of the SBS ended up in D Squadron of 1SAS, together with a troop from the Greek Sacred Squadron. Following Lieutenant Colonel Stirling's capture in Tunisia in January 1943, the regiment was split into two elements:the Special Raiding Squadron (SRS) under Major Paddy Mayne and the Special Boat Squadron (SBS) under Major Lord George Jellicoe. The SRS fought in Sicily and Italy and later in the UK was expanded as the new 1SAS. The SBS meanwhile began training at Athlit, south of Haifa in Palestine. It had an initial strength of about 230, divided into three operational detachments and a base group. Each detachment, known as L, M and S after their original commanders, Captains Tommy Langton, Fitzroy Maclean and David Sutherland, had an establishment of six fighting patrols( one officer and twelve other ranks each) and a smaller HQ patrol. The SBS retained the SAS beret and wings- it did not change to the maroon Airborne Forces beret as the UK based SAS were forced to in 1944, staying with beige. The SBS first operated in the Aegean in September 1943, when men from M and S Detachments had the task of securing Simi (Samo). This was one of the Italian-held Dodecanese islands which the British were attempting to bring under their control, with the ultimate aim of opening a new front in the Balkans. While small units moved onto some of the islands, Jellicoe parachuted onto Rhodes to try and convince the Italian commander not give in to the Germans stationed there. He failed, and soon the British-held islands were under attack, weakly-defended Cos being the first to fall. The first landing attempt on Simi in October was fought off by Major Jock Lapraik and his men together with the Italian garrison , with Lassen intimidating those of his new allies who weren't too keen on fighting. Simi was soon facing heavy air attacks and had to be abandoned. The only large British formation was an infantry brigade on Leros, and with Cos had gone the only airfield. Jellicoe and several patrols were present when the Germans assaulted Leros in November, their job being to attack paratroopers as they landed. However the fall of the island was inevitable, but unlike most of the garrison almost all of the SBS escaped to Turkey and were sent back to Palestine. Commandos in Egeo e in Italia

 

That's very interesting Jason and needless to say a real mind bender ...

So tentatively during this period we have him in Palestine June 43, and then according to Shell attached to the SBS in July 43, followed by the Cos battle in September 43. He then returns to England on January 6 1944 connected to the 11th Parachute Battalion.

Just at the time he joins the Paras the 4th Brigade switches over from the phantom 4th Airborne Division to the 1st Airborne. The 11 Battalion is left behind in Palestine to finish their training while the rest of the 4th Brigade goes into Taranto for the invasion of mainland Italy on September 9th. Not long after on 14/15 September a company from the 11 Para along with the SBS and Durham Light Infantry take part in the Battle for Cos. But as you can see from Jason's link the SBS's involvement in the area was much more extensive than just Cos.

Here's a video of the re-taking of Cos from the German perspective:

WW2 - Battle of Kos Island (Oct 1943)

 

Shell,
I checked the POW Liberation questionnaires while I was at the Archives yesterday and can confirm that there are no records for Pte Robert Davenport - a long shot but in the past I have found records for people that do not appear on the POW lists.
looking at my Father's Service record this morning I see that his Arnhem entry on his Service and Casualty record shows "Emplaned UK for NWE" on the 18th September (2nd Lift) - is there a similar entry on your Father's? If so there should be a corresponding entry immediately below showing his return to there UK. The date of this will settle once and for all the question of whether he was taken POW.

John

 

Guys, you are amazing - There is no mention of being emplaned or returned! I really will get around to scanning the records soon and you can all look at them.

Here's another poser - can anyone identify the two missing names on this photo? It was taken in Palestine in 1943. My dad is second from the left, third from the left is his buddy Jack Beswick who was in the navy. Amazingly dad walked into the bar and there he was, they hadn't had contact since dad joined up. The two I don't know are the guys at each end. I am hoping that one of them is my dad's best friend, known only to me as 'Paddy'. Would be grateful for any ideas. Thanks again. Shell

 

Shell,

That's a great picture. It appears in their merriment they have exchanged caps. Otherwise I'm sorry I can't help with identification. Perhaps the side caps were still worn before berets were issued?

Curiously I came across another photo of 11 Para members in what appears by the decor to be the same bar.

"Joe Shortland (left) on leave in Tel Aviv in October 1943 with other Sergeants of the 11th Parachute Battalion, having completed their parachute course."

Sergeant Albert Joseph Shortland

 

Shell,

That's a great picture. It appears in their merriment they have exchanged caps. Otherwise I'm sorry I can't help with identification. Perhaps the side caps were still worn before berets were issued?

Curiously I came across another photo of 11 Para members in what appears by the decor to be the same bar.

"Joe Shortland (left) on leave in Tel Aviv in October 1943 with other Sergeants of the 11th Parachute Battalion, having completed their parachute course."

Sergeant Albert Joseph Shortland
Have to agrre with you Cee, great pic and as you say 3 para's with two in Navy caps, as for the timeline in all this with the SBS thrown in the mix does confuse things somewhat the service record is the key for sure.As to the pic of Sgt Shortland great to see as I had some correspondence with one of his relatives last year.......cant wait for the 11 Para book that comes out next month

 

Have to agrre with you Cee, great pic and as you say 3 para's with two in Navy caps, as for the timeline in all this with the SBS thrown in the mix does confuse things somewhat the service record is the key for sure.As to the pic of Sgt Shortland great to see as I had some correspondence with one of his relatives last year.......cant wait for the 11 Para book that comes out next month

Here I come cap in hand ...

You may have a point there Jason as the SBS was a Royal Navy special forces unit. I just assumed the SBS wore berets, but that may have been adopted later. To add to the confusion Jack Beswick was in the Navy. It's too bad you can't see the name of the ship on the cap. It certainly leaves me wondering and hopefully someone can clear it up.

Regards ..

 

Here I come cap in hand ...

You may have a point there Jason as the SBS was a Royal Navy special forces unit. I just assumed the SBS wore berets, but that may have been adopted later. To add to the confusion Jack Beswick was in the Navy. It's too bad you can't see the name of the ship on the cap. It certainly leaves me wondering and hopefully someone can clear it up.

Regards ..
Cee, I just think the Para's are wearing borrowed navy caps as you say in the course of merriment, 1 SBS would of worn berets with parent regiment cap badge at that time.... then SAS beret and badge as part of D Sqn 1 SAS later Special boat squadron, but back to point in question these are para's attached or otherwise at that time and just to help here we have 11 Para Bn, SBS and Cos. http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/searching-someone-military-genealogy/25225-major-ian-patterson-sbs.html

 

Jason, I initially read your misspelling of agree as 'argue' and it set my mind a twirling on other possibilities. Over thinking as usual on my part ... The Patterson case you point to makes one wonder as well.

Cheers

 

Here I come cap in hand ...

You may have a point there Jason as the SBS was a Royal Navy special forces unit. I just assumed the SBS wore berets, but that may have been adopted later. To add to the confusion Jack Beswick was in the Navy. It's too bad you can't see the name of the ship on the cap. It certainly leaves me wondering and hopefully someone can clear it up.

Regards ..

Surely wartime naval cap bands would just have said HMS?

Chris

 

Hi Guys it is a great picture and sums up dad nicely! Yes Jack was in the Navy, so assume he and dad swapped hats - don't know where the second one came from - maybe a pal of Jack's out of shot. As it was taken in Palestine in 43, when he was on leave, can only assume that dad had just passed his training too. I was hoping to find the names of the other guys in the hope that one was his best friend Padd who joined 11 PARA from the Household Cavalry. He was killed on the way down at Normandy and dad felt his loss hard. I would love to find his grave in France (if he has one) to pay my respects.

 

He was at Normandy, but we don't know with what unit.

I was hoping to find the names of the other guys in the hope that one was his best friend Padd who joined 11 PARA from the Household Cavalry. He was killed on the way down at Normandy and dad felt his loss hard. I would love to find his grave in France (if he has one) to pay my respects.
Shell, seems we are getting more questions than answers in all this 11 Para Bn were not at Normandy..... and while 11 Bn tie in with Cos and Arnhem, your mention in the above of your Dad and his mate Paddy being at Normandy present a problem...... not only with finding another Para Battalion, but also 'Paddy' gives us little to go on other than looking at casualties from para battalions who were killed in the early moring drops(and looking for a clue in the name i.e to arrive at Paddy) on the 6th, sorry if this does not help but just trying to highlight how tricky trying to find info can be, the trail goes on and im sure we will endevour to find more....all the best Jason. Just to emphasize 191 casualties for Parachute Regiment on the 6/6/44. Geoff's Search Engine

 

Shell, seems we are getting more questions than answers in all this 11 Para Bn were not at Normandy..... and while 11 Bn tie in with Cos and Arnhem, your mention in the above of your Dad and his mate Paddy being at Normandy present a problem...... not only with finding another Para Battalion, but also 'Paddy' gives us little to go on other than looking at casualties from para battalions who were killed in the early moring drops(and looking for a clue in the name i.e to arrive at Paddy) on the 6th, sorry if this does not help but just trying to highlight how tricky trying to find info can be, the trail goes on and im sure we will endevour to find more....all the best Jason. Just to emphasize 191 casualties for Parachute Regiment on the 6/6/44. Geoff's Search Engine



I heard, the name "Paddy" is very often a nickname for Irish soldiers.
I know one soldier of the 11th batalion with this name.
It was Joseph "Paddy" Gray. A company. He was at Cos and Arnhem, taken POW but not at normandy.

 

Surely wartime naval cap bands would just have said HMS?

Chris

Chris, thanks for making me aware of that. I gather that was for security purposes.

I did come across a Paddy Ryan with A Coy, 11 Para. To my eye he bears no resemblance to the two outside men in the bar photo. Some of you may have better luck than me in running him down elsewhere.

2 Platoon, A-Coy, 11 Para Bn - ParaData

 

Happy Easter to all my new friends! I am taking the opportunity of the long weekend to get my dad's records scanned and posted. Just a quick question though, can the blog accept pdf or am I better using a jpeg file? Just in the process also of booking an appointment with the archives at Duxford, which I am quite excited about!

 

Shell,

My choice would be jpegs either attached or hosted and roughly the same size each as your bar scan.

Happy hunting at Duxford ...