Why was a German victory in WW2 impossible?

Discussion in 'General' started by Lindele, Oct 11, 2020.

  1. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    They sure had cool looking stuff though.
     
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  2. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    The Allies also had a clear advantage in the way in which their government structures were organised. The Nazi approach was to have party grandees each holding a whole series of responsibilities and competing with one another. Thus, for example, Goring headed the Luftwaffe but he was also responsible for the Reich's five year economic plan. Goebbels headed the Ministry of Information but he was also responsible for the Total War policy. Not only did neither of them have enough time to devote to one thing (and Goring was notoriously lazy) but their responsibilities clashed and they loathed one another so time and effort was spent in thwarting each other. Germany's efforts to develop advanced weaponry was hampered by a slew of parallel projects each sponsored by a different grandee so that effort was diffused and almost none came to fruition.
    Whilst the Allies certainly had their own internal political squabbles lines of responsibility were clear and limited. The head of the air force did not have other responsibilities.
     
  3. chipm

    chipm Well-Known Member

    Is there a "Concrete" explanation of his death being Planned/Conspiratorial.?
     
  4. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    AFAIK no, some powerful suspicions mainly based on how convenient it was for Speer. Interestingly it's interesting to see how Speer fiddled with the reporting periods so that some of the production improvements that occurred under Todt fall into Speer's 'rule' making his performance look better than it was and Todt incompetent. Proves nothing about the death but it does show the spirit of the cabal- very much dog eat dog
     
  5. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    Impossible! Perhaps, but that is a highly subjective conclusion.

    Given the number of nations involved and the enormous manpower and materials it required to defeat Germany in 1945, it wouldn't be inconceivable that with a few different outcomes (i.e. Stalingrad), the war may well have extended to 1946 or 1947. A lot can happen in 2 years.
     
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  6. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    The German economy in 1939 was not the powerhouse that we know today. It was actually pretty average. As a result, they were never going to out produce the US. Defeat was inevitable once the US had joined the war.
     
  7. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    And without access to imports even before that but we are going round in circles now
     
  8. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    It was inconceivable. They were not going to get a successful outcome at Stalingrad. That had been settled even before URANUS was launched. Even if the Germans "won" by capturing the last few blocks from Chuikov, so what? The good weather had gone by then and Army Group B's schwerpunkt was effectively dead and in an extremely vulnerable position which the Soviets were bound to hit hard sooner or later. The Caucasus oil was the main objective of the whole campaign and that was still on the other side of the mountains with snows about to block the passes. German strength was sinking fast by the autumn of '42 and Soviet strength in men and weapons was rising. With the 8th Army ready to attack at Alamein and the Americans ready to come in on TORCH the point had turned.
     
  9. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    There was no question of a German victory after the bleeding of manpower on the Eastern Front.The grip blockading Germany was unrelenting as was the RAF and USAAF bomber offensive from late 1942 against the whole range output of the German war economy

    After Stalingrad,reality was recognised by many in the Wehrmacht that a German victory was beyond their reach.Then Hitler's motive for war against Russia took a new direction,that of a mission as a saviour for Europe against Bolshevism,a message carried by senior SS personalities. Lebensraum then took second placing.

    However by the autumn of 1944,the military situation was unrecoverable with ever declining stocks of oil.Hitler had already gambled by electing to go to war with only 6 weeks of oil in reserve,his intention to gain victories from lightning wars.Oil would be sourced from the Roumanian oilfields,the Baku oilfields and very importantly from Germany's own coal feedstock supplied synthetic oil plants.

    From the autumn of 1944,the strategic plan of the Allies from late spring to attack Germany's oil plants bore fruit.From then on the Luftwaffe training programmes had to be reduced for an increasing lack of fuel and by early 1945,lack of fuel began to have an adverse affect on the ability of the Wehrmacht to engage in a mobile war.

    Hossbach's Memorandum of 5 November 1937 gives a most comprehensive account of Hitler's intention to use force for Germany to achieve the status of a world power.

    Germany, it is recorded, should be prepared to wage war at the latest between 1943 and 1945.A war later than that would put Germany at a disadvantage it related.

    It might be concluded that Hitler jumped the starting gun in his offensive against Poland,four years after preparing Germany for war.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
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  10. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    To put it all very simply

    Germany was at war with
    • The world's most extensive empire with control over a huge range of material resources - The British Empire
    • The country with the widest financial trading and banking network - Britain
    • The country with the greatest industrial capability - USA
    • A country with vast territories and commensurate man power resources - the USSR
    She was also fighting the two most powerful maritime nations in the world - Britain and the USA without an adequate surface fleet so that she could not get at them but they could decide where to strike her and bar her from commerce with the rest of the world.
    Ladies and gentlemen place your bets.
     
  11. chipm

    chipm Well-Known Member

    10-4..... Thanks for the info.:salut:
     
  12. chipm

    chipm Well-Known Member

    Maybe i am 100% biased, because i enjoy the topic of WW2, but i think the whole Eastern Front/ Logistics Story....and all of it periphery... would make a great movie. Not a documentary, but a quality "Hollywood Movie" that would wind Logistics into an exciting 4-5 year story. ;):)
     
  13. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    I think you might have a hard sell there pitching it to either a studio or a streaming service.
     
  14. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place.... Patron

    Sure, Germany and its axis allies had little chance of beating Britain the USA and USSR. However, there were lots of ways the Germans could have won.

    Had Hitler died in July 1939 and avoided war, he might have been hailed as the greatest German statesman ever.
    Had Hitler died in May 1941 before the invasion of the Soviet Union, Hitler might have been seen as the conqueror of Europe on a par with Napoleon. (What evidence is there that the US would have intervened in any way other than protecting its transatlantic trade?)
     
  15. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    The US had already intervened in effect by increasingly supplying the UK. Lend lease started before the invasion of the Soviet Union
     
  16. smdarby

    smdarby Patron Patron

    Just to throw a spanner in the works: The world's largest economy, strongest military and leader of the free world v. North Vietnam.

    As one poster stated above - ladies and gentlemen place your bets.

    Nothing in history is inevitable.
     
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  17. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    strongest military and leader of the free world but lacking the moral backing of many of its own people and the will to engage in total war
     
  18. smdarby

    smdarby Patron Patron

    US public opinion was overwhelmingly against entering WWII in the early part of the war. In a 1939 poll 90% rejected deploying forces to assist Britain, France and Poland. The US entering WWII was not inevitable and even then US public opinion can change very quickly.

    Gallup Vault: U.S. Opinion and the Start of World War II
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
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  19. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    But the US was willing to act as Britain's arsenal and did so and as long as this continued and Britain had her navy Germany could not knock her out and Britain could eventually strangle Germany both through physical blockade and commercial embargo. Germany had to live by international pillage which would make the invasion of the Soviet Union inevitable. Without the US forces Germany's defeat would have taken longer but was inevitable.
     
  20. smdarby

    smdarby Patron Patron

    Roosevelt (who was in poor health) was "willing" and in the poll mentioned above a small majority (58%) supported sending arms to assist Britain and France. But "willingness" can easily and quickly change in the US.

    What would have happened if an isolationist had won the Republican Party nomination for president in 1940 (a number were running) and they had then been elected president? No more military aid to the Allies.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
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