Unidentified Grave

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by archivist, Jun 16, 2015.

  1. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    I don't think any propeller blade will do more than identify the type(s) of aircraft fitted with it. In this case you have another Wellington in the vicinity so even identifying it as being from a Wellington doesn't pin down any position, it could have been dragged for miles in a fishing net for example...
    but it's proving to be a very interesting thread.
     
  2. archivist

    archivist Well-Known Member

    If the original propeller could be found, and markings that positively identified it to the specific aircraft, well and good. However, even if that is possible, the chances of doing that are extremely remote. So I have more or less given up on that.

    It is not critical to the story but it would have been nice to be able to show the picture to family members of the crew - just a last, tangible artefact linked to their family member.
     
  3. Red Goblin

    Red Goblin Senior Member

  4. archivist

    archivist Well-Known Member

    Fascinating! Oh, how I wish we had some underwater fell walkers who could do the same!

    Neville
     
  5. Brendan Maguire

    Brendan Maguire New Member

    Hi I know this post is old but are you still looking for the wellington I know where it is.
     
  6. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    hello and welcome
    im sure the whereabouts of the Wellingtons position would be useful if you could post it here
     
  7. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Doesn't the Protection of Military Remains Act come into play?
     
  8. Brendan Maguire

    Brendan Maguire New Member

    the prop that was lifted should have been reported as it still belongs to the goverment. I am the guy in the picture that lifted the props off the jigs up and had additional info for you on the Wellington.
     
  9. archivist

    archivist Well-Known Member

    I would like to know anything at all about this crash and the families of the men are obviously interested
     
  10. archivist

    archivist Well-Known Member

    I don't think so because all the bodies were recovered
     
  11. Red Goblin

    Red Goblin Senior Member

    Long time no see but mainly just to announce/welcome a potentially-useful ally - a new forum member who responded to my recent 'HMS Mercury found' thread and who's CAMS hi-res sonar team was actually instrumental in identifying it. Now. back in 2015, Coflein had basically commissioned Bangor Uni's CAMS to improve the accuracy of their sub-maritime artefact database and I'd more or less given up eyeballing their new 3D imagery when, on 15 Nov, life 'threw me a curve ball' so distracting that I gave up fishing and forgot to mention that initiative here. But now he has kindly shown an interest in pinpointing Z1172 and conditionally offered his team-leading help, I nutshell-briefed him with a link back here to give him the fullest picture of our progress so far to non-committally absorb ad lib. Having just reread it all to refresh my memory, though, we all seem to be au fait with Wimpys whereas he may not as more of a mariner - but he surely need only ask us if so.

    Yup - Protection of Military Remains Act 1986
    "An Act to secure the protection from unauthorised interference of the remains of military aircraft and vessels that have crashed, sunk or been stranded and of associated human remains; and for connected purposes."

    Sorry, Neville, but that specifically includes wreckage in the quoted summary description - as I understand it, from my copy of Snowdonia Aviation History Society's position-listing warplane wrecks booklet, even unmanned RC target drone remains are thus taboo as litter-picking souvenirs. And, of course, "ignorance of the law is no defence" !
     
  12. Blutto

    Blutto Plane Mad

    Out of curiosity, the Act starts off with the following: "the Secretary of State may by order made by statutory instrument". Would such an SI have to be published in the Gazette for each and every crash site?
     
  13. Red Goblin

    Red Goblin Senior Member

    Aha, and there was I fearing this thread dead! That's a fair question given the parlous state of LG's 'Deceased Estates' RSS feed of late. I didn't think to check that angle but I'd hope so as my simplistic search for the Act also returned a 1987 Guernsey variant plus 1 amendment and 7 subsequent site schedules:
    1. The Protection of Military Remains Act 1986 (Designation of Vessels and Controlled Sites) Order 2002
    2. The Protection of Military Remains Act 1986 (Designation of Vessels and Controlled Sites) (Amendment) Order 2003
    3. The Protection of Military Remains Act 1986 (Designation of Vessels and Controlled Sites) Order 2006
    4. The Protection of Military Remains Act 1986 (Designation of Vessels and Controlled Sites) Order 2008
    5. The Protection of Military Remains Act 1986 (Designation of Vessels and Controlled Sites) Order 2009
    6. The Protection of Military Remains Act 1986 (Designation of Vessels and Controlled Sites) Order 2012
    7. The Protection of Military Remains Act 1986 (Designation of Vessels and Controlled Sites) Order 2017
    8. The Protection of Military Remains Act 1986 (Designation of Vessels and Controlled Sites) Order 2019
    That actually 9 documents, including a 2010 update to the 2008 one, which I've just pulled down to search and find:
    • Good news: Cumulative - only latest needed for currency
    • Bad news: Only vessels listed by name - no a/c codes merely giving lat/long positions
    • Bottom Line: All a/c totally anonymous - no clue as to what each may be - so even going to the trouble of mapping any would prove nothing except by informing a visit to see what proof remains if any
    • HMS Mercury is curiously absent - due to location or just yet to be added ?
    If you've only just latched onto this thread, BTW Blutto. you may just be able to supply the US perspective it so badly needs if at all familiar with New Jersey. I just hope at least its OP is still tuned in.
     
  14. Blutto

    Blutto Plane Mad

    Nothing US about me...
     
  15. Red Goblin

    Red Goblin Senior Member

    Oh, sorry, my false impression then - though I trust you're reading "US" as 'United States' rather than 'UnServiceable' !
     
  16. archivist

    archivist Well-Known Member

    Thanks Red Goblin,

    I have no intention of disturbing military wreckage for souvenirs. My interest was only in locating the burial places of the air crew - which I have done - and I am satisfied with that.
     
    ritsonvaljos likes this.
  17. Red Goblin

    Red Goblin Senior Member

    Sudden goalpost movement noted. :glare: :bye:
     

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