Hello I'm hoping somebody can point me in the right direction regarding tracing my uncle's RAF career. His name was Kenneth Austen Thomas and was from Levenshulme, Manchester. I know he was awarded his wings in Manitoba in 1943. That I'm afraid is all I know and though he did keep his RAF documents etc they have now passed out of the family I would like to know where to begin my search and any other tips which may be of use. I have been recommended to the RAF Commands forum and though I registered with them weeks ago my account doesn't appear to have been activated yet. The only other thing I have is a rather poor copy of a photo showing him and his crew standing in front of a Lancaster. Thanks Simon
Morning Simon - good start and smarter people than me will be along soon to help. In the meantime, can you scan the photo (front & back as sometimes there are notes) and add it to this thread. Have you tried any other sites besides the RAFcommands? No chance of tracking the documents that used to be in the familiy, if only to obtain photocopies? Any older relatives with snippets of information? Cheers and good luck Dave
Hello Simon, A very good starting point in research is to obtain the service record of your subject, the record will tell you most of what you want to know, such as date of enlistment, squadrons served with, rank and much more. Please see the links below re obtaining the records. Once the service records are obtained you can then further your research, hopefully with the assistance of ww2talk? Regards Peter http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/18810-obtaining-raf-service-records-the-rules/ https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records
Dave The copy of the photo I have was taken through the glass of the frame from the original on 35mm film. The quality is very shabby, the signatures of the crew on the original are hardly visible and certainly not legible on my copy. There is nothing on the rear. My aunty died a few years ago now and everything went to her then partner who didn't respond when I asked for photocopies. I believe my uncle had his flight log, medals and other service details. I don't even know his service number. The other problem i have with posting the photo is that I couldn't find it today! The only surviving elderly relative is my mother who knows no more than what I have posted. I haven't tried any other forums beside this one and my as yet fruitless efforts to get on RAF Commands. Peter Without his service number I'm assuming it will be difficult to obtain his records particularly as Thomas is far from being an usual surname. I have been researching his uncles RFC/RAF history and found that there were two pilots with identical Christian, middle and surnames (fortunately I had been following the right one). Thanks for providing the links which I'm about to start digesting Thanks again Simon
I downloaded the RAF service number cards for all of the personnel with the surname of Thomas. No Kenneth Austen Thomas but there was a Kenneth Austin Thomas – service number 1670546 Going off info provided by Ross (on ww2talk with the profile RAFCommands) that places Kenneth Austin Thomas in this block: 1670001 – 1692488 (22488 personnel with the next 12 numbers allocated to Dutchmen). That block was used for airmen entering service through RAF Padgate from November 1941 The next block (1692501 onwards) commenced June 1942 so presuming we have the right bloke we can surmise that he enlisted late in 1941 No hits for that name or number in the London Gazette so that member mustn't have been commissioned or received any awards
Dave Thanks very much for your help. Strangely I always thought his middle name to be spelled with an "i" and only found out in the last few weeks I was wrong. His father shared the same middle name and I appear to have been spelling his name wrongly for over 20yrs. I think it may be a typo on the part of the clerk as surely Austin is by far the more common version. Armed with this information I'll see what else I can uncover. 1941 would seem about right as he received his wings in 1943 so allowing for basic training and pilot training I'd imagine that would account for the gap (happy to be proved wrong,I frequently am!). Many thanks for assistance. Simon
Dave, Forgot to mention that I knew his medals didn't include anything that would have been Gazetted. I'll speak to my mother tomorrow and see if she remembers his rank, I've never heard of him being commissioned so I suppose that makes it that bit more likely you've found the right man. Thanks again Simon
Research going well....well done to the detectives of history. DaveB..........that's a very good research tool being able to access data on a service number by name.However one thing occurs to me is that any RAF airman commissioned from non commissioned ranks would have his number changed.....is it possible to reveal non commissioned and commissioned service numbers of the same man from the data base?
Dave I've just spoken to my mother (for the umpteenth time on this subject) and in true geriatric fashion she's remembered a little more about her brothers (3 in the RAF). When I researched her father's career with the Manchesters neither she nor her sister new anything though upon her sisters death I received not only his medals but a wealth of photos/postcards and other ephemeraz relating to his WW1 service! Rant over! Apparently the spelling of Austin with an I is correct, seemingly she confused him with a certain female novelist! Whilst she can't confirm the RAF Padgate connection she knows one at least of her brothers was stationed there. Would Padgate have been a training camp specifically for the North West catchment area? It would appear she also has a few photos of Ken in uniform and though she didn't have them to hand she is certain he held the rank of Sergeant. The photos are mainly shots of him though she thinks there is one where he is part of a group. She also has (she thinks!) an air mail letter from him which if it's like the ones I have from her brother Jim it will probably have his service number on it and obviously the address where he was stationed at the time. As well as doing his pilot training in Manitoba she says he was also stationed in Egypt, Bari and somewhere in Cambridgeshire/Norfolk (along with how many thousands!). My mother is going to seek out the letter today and find the photos so hopefully by tonight (over optimistic perhaps) I may be able to confirm his service number. If as it appears there is only one Kenneth Austin Thomas, when combined with his home address being relatively local to Padgate Im inclined to believe you've found my uncle. If this is the case you'll have made a delirious octogenarian even more delirious! Finally, does anybody know the minimum sentence for Matricide? Thanks again Simon
Further information if anyone can help translate please, I really don't know anything about the RAF (yet!). My mother has unearthed a photograph of Ken with a group of other airmen. There are no names on the photo but the following detail appears. No.1 flight No.4 Squadron No.10 ITW (initial training wing ?) September 1942 I haven't yet seen the photo but my mother tells me there is the white training "flash" visible on their forage caps. If anyone can add any meat to these bones I'd be grateful. Thanks Simon
No 10 ITW was located at Scarborough,a non flying unit with billets requistioned by the use of hotels.Initial Training Wing....basic training with syllabus dedicated as future aircrew designation of the aircrew cadet. The designation Flight and Squadron were sub structures of the No 10 ITW..... a Flight could have a compliment of students up a 120 airmen...the RAF training units normally adopted this structure tree. K A Thomas since he trained in Canada would have passed through Heaton Park (Manchester),a dedicated unit entitled Aircrew Despatch Centre (ACDC) formed to handle aircrew cadets for posting to Canada or Rhodesia for flying training.The time at Heaton Park was dependent on the rate of throughput at the flying training units abroad.In all,Heaton Park processed nearly 135 000 air cadets during the war. Forage cap white flash indicated "Aircrew Cadet"
Harry Thanks very much for your reply. Every small piece of information is valuable to me as only a few days ago I knew little more than his name. Have I got this in the correct order :- Initial training at RAF Padgate followed by Scarborough followed by Heaton Park followed by Manitoba? It's very recently indeed that I was in Heaton Park watching my son play football. Coincidentally the pitch was right next to where the Manchester Pals billets once stood, Ken Thomas' father was one of them. I was hoping my mother would be able to find Kens letter so I could confirm the service number suggested above so we could apply for his service record but so far it has evaded her. Thanks again Simon
A little further information From a photo dated 22/6/43 he was part of Course 80, 13 Elementary Flying Training School, St Eugene, Ontario. A graduation banquet dated 1943 shows him as part of Course 84, No 17 Service Flying Training School, Souris, Manitoba. (Received his wings in 1943 so am I to believe this was the reason for the banquet). The menu contains the names of his course mates and most of their signatures. Simon
Mancpal When applying for his service records I am not sure that his service number is necessary if you have his date of birth - link - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records#how-to-apply-for-service-personnel-records - might be worth giving them a call and asking them, just to put yourself at ease. Don't forget that if the records are for a next of kin (if Kenneth is your Mum's brother) then they should be free - I think, check that with the call as well TD
TD, IIRC only Widows/Widowers of service personnel are eligible for free service records of their deceased husband/wife. Regards Steve Y
TD and Steve, I had wondered how far the "next of kin" hurdle could be stretched. I had it in my mind that I would have to pay the fee as I doubt last surviving sibling (of 7) would equate to NoK. The 25 yr wait after the serviceman's death is almost up so I'll only have to wait until August to request the record. What put me off about applying "blind" for his record stems from pre-internet days and the WW1 records. With 60-70% destroyed it was a real gamble parting with the fee only to find that nothing existed. In fact of about 15 WW1 servicemen I've looked into I've only found 2 service records (one of those partial). I realise that Kenneths record may not be found which is why I have been so concerned about confirmation of his service number to provide every detail I can Thanks very much for your assistance Simon
Simon The 25 year wait is only I think if you do not provide a copy of their death cert. I applied for my Dads records 2 years after he died including a copy of his death cert with the forms. NoK - you would need to check as I cannot remember if a sister can apply for free, or it needs to be wife?? - if sister is acceptable just fill in the forms and ask her to sign them as applicant. TD
TD, Thanks again for your input. I will get there in the end, however I've got to be in Scotland tomorrow Morning and London the day after so sleep might come in handy. Thanks Simon
Also, where I live its not frowned upon if your brother/sister ends up as your spouse. Where would that leave the regulations! I only moved out of Mcr to do a bit of missionary work! Simon
