Third Reich Generals as role Models

I'm reading a book by Gordon Corrigan called "Blood Sweat and Arrogance: The Myth of Churchill's war" and in it he makes the point that Rommel is the only Third Reich Commander that the Bundeswehr acknowledges from its past. I think this is strange considering that he Commanded Hitler's Bodyguard and was very close to Hitler. My point is this: Given that all the German Generals (Rommel included ) were tainted by the Regime, who else do you think that the Bundeswehr should acknowledge from a purely military point of view?

A good question to start Friday off methinks!!!

 

I don't think it's so much that the German army currently doesn't "acknowledge" other Generals from the war, but that they have gotten into hot water when they have done so.

Whereas, the myth of Rommel as the good guy was established soon after the war (or even during the war - North Africa commnanders weren't always happy with the way that the British soldiers referred to him as the Desert Fox, in an almost affectionate way), the reality of his strong Nazi support, only really came about through the "revisionist"histories later on. (It didn't help that he was portrayed by James Mason in the 1951 film). Because of the myth of Rommel's involvement in the 20 July attempt, the former Allies do not feel any threat from his name being used within the German military.

However, over the years there have been occassions where contemporary German generals have attended memorials, or have used other wartime Generals' names or activities, and one or more of the countries that were at war with Germany have protested (either in the media or formally). So, whether the wartime Generals were god, bad or in-between, their name is still sullied in the eyes of most European countries.

 

p.s. GH, just had a look at my copy of the book. I don't know how far you've got but have a look at the last half of page 462.

 

Guderian was a member of the military court that discharged the July 20 conspirators from the army so that they could then be tried by Friesler's Peoples Court rather than an army court martial. I doubt if he had any choice but I'd imagine that it would be enough to rule him out of any use as a role model for the Bundeswehr.

 

p.s. GH, just had a look at my copy of the book. I don't know how far you've got but have a look at the last half of page 462.
I shall look at this tonight when I get home. Dont have it with me unfortunately!

 

There are many german generals that should be greatly respected from a military standpoint, because the fact is, they were some of the best generals in the second world war. However, many of these men were caught up in the politics, it is hard to portray them as role models. What they did is so publicized that the stain may never wear off.

 

Rommel isn't the only one that the Bundeswehr have honoured. As an example the military barracks in Mittenwald and Füssen were named General Ludwig Kübler Barracks and Generaloberst Eudard Dietl Barracks respectively, however in November 1995 they were renamed Allgäu Barracks and Karwendel Barracks as those two didn't represent the values of the Bundeswehr.

In my opinion it would be wrong for the Bundeswehr to honour any ww2 German commander in such ways. Neither because you can't find honourable men among them nor because their military abilities doesn't warrant them a place in military history, but simply because they fought for a regime that is so fundamental different from the values of the democratic state, and the Bundeswehr as an institution in the democratic state should reflect this.

 

In my view,the Wehrmacht leadership became so interwoven with Nazism and were aware of Hitller's expansionist intentions from 1937.There was still the element of Prussian militarism in Germany amongst this leadership which Hitler so expertly harnessed.The majority of the military leadership took the rich pickings of office and were not too bothered to take Hitler's gifts of money and estates at any time during their service to the Fuhrer or after forced retirement.

I think the issues of the Cold War made it a priority for the Western Powers to bring in from the cold,those who were thought likely to form the cornerstone of the new West German Bundeswehr.One example was Hans Speidel,Rommel's former Chief of Staff in Normandy.Speidel represented West German at NATO from 1955 and became the head of the West German Bundeswehr. He was reportedly associated with covert resistance against Hitler and was reported to be involved with Karl Heinrich Von Stuelpnagel in the drawing up of an armistice in May 1944.Whether Speidel is remembered by a Barracks named in his honour, I do not know but it would be equally difficult for the Germans to name a Barracks after any of their successful battles of either war.

 

The Federal German Navy built a class of Guided Missile Destroyers in the 1980's, known as Rommel, Lutjens and Molders.
Presumably all of these men were regarded as "clean"

 

I think that there are a lot of Generals that should be recognized by the Bundeswehr as acceptable and respected from a military standpoint. To cite a few I would mention von Arnim, Guderian, Halder, Jodl, Kesselring, Model, von Senger, Paulus, von Kluge, von Manteuffel, von Reichenau, von Manstein, Carl Heinrich von Stulpnagel, von Kleist.. They were all remarkable men and great military strategists and brilliant minds. Germans should be proud of these patriots.
see Hitler's Generals

 

Patriots???? As VP states that certainly is an interesting word to use - sort of deterrmines a point of view as well.

I would also have a problem with Von Reichenau, not so much a patriot as a Nazi. Guderian and Jodl also have questionable ethics, yes you heard me, Guderian!! The man sat on the trials of some of the 20th July plotters and didnt hesitate to accept milllions of marks and an Estate from the Fuehrer in the Warthegau or what is now Poland.

 

I would agree that Reichenau was not totally clean but he protested against the treatment of the population in Russia and was told by the party that he was a reactionary aristocrat. It was not easy for a German General to act against the will of the party. As for Guderian, he was the onoly one to oppose and confront Hitler until the end, Hitler respected him and even feared him. From February to March 1945, he dominated the daily
Führer's conference by his brave resistance. He was not charged as criminal of war which says a lot about his image at the end of the war because the Allies did not show much indulgence to the German Generals in 1945-46. Even Jodl
in 1953 was posthumously exonerated by a German de-Nazification court, which cited Nuremberg Trial judge Donnedieu's statements and found Jodl not guilty of crimes under international law. I wont change my list except maybe for Reichenau...

 

Whilst I agree with you on Guderian over the point of resisting Hitler at the staff conferences, I believe his book to be prejudiced and somewhat self-serving as are all the German Generals memoirs. I'm not doubting his ability or his professionalism but I am saying that he embellished himself a bit in his memoirs. Still a great general though and much more worthy of respect than Rommel in my opinion!

 

Even Jodl in 1953 was posthumously exonerated by a German de-Nazification court, which cited Nuremberg Trial judge Donnedieu's statements and found Jodl not guilty of crimes under international law. I wont change my list except maybe for Reichenau...

I had never heard of this! Where can I read more? Are there other instances of exoneration?

 

the fate of Jodl after the war is documented and very well known, if you do some research on the net you will find it easily at :
Alfred Jodl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
or ar
http://schikelgruber.net/nuremb.html

 

Politics aside, I think there were numerous Wehrmacht Generals that would be very effective role models to soldiers when dealing with the question, How to kill the enemy effectively? How to win a Battle with minimal equipment, no cold weather gear, little or no air cover and many times no tanks?

As far as role models for Johnny, that would be quite a stretch.

 

I think that there are a lot of Generals that should be recognized by the Bundeswehr as acceptable and respected from a military standpoint. To cite a few I would mention von Arnim, Guderian, Halder, Jodl, Kesselring, Model, von Senger, Paulus, von Kluge, von Manteuffel, von Reichenau, von Manstein, Carl Heinrich von Stulpnagel, von Kleist.. They were all remarkable men and great military strategists and brilliant minds. Germans should be proud of these patriots.
see Hitler's Generals

The link above does not seem to work

Off the cuff, I can't understand why should anybody remember these people as patriots.

However there might be a case for some and it depends how deep they were involved in the ideology,the rich pickings of power and wealth and the depth of their seduction by Hitler.

For a start,I would not include von Arnim in a list of detraction.But to include Jodl as a military respected person,faithful to the end to Hitler is rather odd.

Will return later in depth. In the meanwhile, can we list any public buildings or military installations that have been named after this list by the Bundeswehr?