The White Rose & Internal Resistance to Hitler.

Discussion in 'The Third Reich' started by Gerard, Mar 9, 2005.

  1. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    There is a news item on the BBC website today on the epic and tragic story of those young people who opposed the Nazi regime.

    BBC News - White Rose: The Germans who tried to topple Hitler

    Also remembering the reported 5000 or so young Germans who refused Nazi war service and paid for it with their lives in a barbaric fashion.
  2. Drayton

    Drayton Senior Member

    The 70th anniversary of the founding of the White Rose group was celebrated in the 2012 Housmans Peace Diary.

    The first German conscientious objector of WW2 was executed by shooting on 15 September 1939. Hitler later decided that shooting was too good for such dissidents and ordered the revival of the guillotine. The best known CO was probably the Austrian, Franz Jaegerstaetter, beheaded in Berlin on 9 August 1943.

    The nonviolent resistance to Nazism within Germany has never been remembered in the UK as much as the July 1944 bomb plot against Hitler.
  3. RemeDesertRat

    RemeDesertRat Very Senior Member

    Thanks for posting, both. Very interesting.
  4. Oldman

    Oldman Very Senior Member

    Thank you for the interesting post
  5. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    Is this day a national day of remembrance in Germany? It should be.
  6. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Interesting picture doing the rounds, that I'd not seen.
    Said to be an anti Nazi Rally in Berlin, 1932. Though I haven't been able to verify that.


    Googling about trying to find the provenance, I see that nearly c.3000-5000 Germans & Austrians fought on the Republican side in the Spanish Civil war, including future Chancellor Willy Brandt.
    Not something that I'd ever thought of before.

    (I've collected & merged multiple White Rose/Sophie Scholl/Internal resistance threads into one larger home under the Third Reich forum.)
    CL1 likes this.
  7. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin


    A Short Biography of Willy Brandt.

    If I recall correctly Brandt was stopped and checked by the SD on route for Berlin whilst being an activist in the Resistance movement.

    Being fluent on Norwegian and Swedish, he managed to preserve his cover as a Student.

  8. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin


    Just found this travel Blog which Shows the Building in Question, which is the Art Academy in Berlin.

    The link Shows a recent photograph of the exterior and an old Album photo showing a Nazi Party Rally in the area.

    Google map and streetview showing the building adjacent to Berlin Cathedral.,13.400327,3a,78.8y,348.09h,89.69t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sEP3-QbzrgSu_f6_qz7Ok2g!2e0!5m1!1e4

  9. TriciaF

    TriciaF Junior Member

    Another book on the subject has been recommended on here in another thread:
    An Honorable Defeat, by Anton Gill. German Resistance 1933-45.
    I've ordered it.
  10. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    Prophetic words that unfortunately, all too unfortunately, fell on deaf ears:

    First leaflet of the White Rose
    (The quotations from Friedrich Schiller, "Die Gesetzgebung des Lykurgus und Solon" and Goethe's "Des Epimenides Erwachen", second act, fourth performance have been omitted by me.)
    A facsimile of the original leaflet can be found in the appendix.

    Nothing is more unworthy of a cultural people than to be "governed" without resistance by an irresponsible clique of rulers who surrender to dark urges. Is it not the case that every honest German is ashamed of his government today, and who of us has any idea of the extent of the disgrace that will come upon us and our children once the veil has fallen from our eyes and the most horrendous crimes, which infinitely exceed all measure, come to light? If the German people are already so corrupted and decayed in their deepest being that they, without lifting a hand, in reckless trust in a questionable law of history, surrender the highest thing that a human being possesses and that elevates him above every other creature, namely free will, and which elevates him above every other creature, namely free will, and abandons man's freedom to intervene in the wheel of history and to subordinate it to his own rational decision - if the Germans, so devoid of individuality, have already become such a mindless and cowardly mass, then, yes, then they deserve their downfall.

    Goethe speaks of the Germans as a tragic people, like that of the Jews and Greeks, but today it rather seems as if they are a shallow, will-less herd of hangers-on, whose marrow has been sucked out of their innermost being and who, robbed of their core, are now ready to be rushed to their doom. It seems so - but it is not so; rather, in a slow, deceptive, systematic rape, each individual has been put into a spiritual prison, and only when he lay bound in it did he become aware of his doom. Only a few recognised the impending doom, and the reward for their heroic admonition was death. The fate of these people will be discussed later.

    If each waits until the other begins, the messengers of the avenging nemesis will inexorably draw nearer and nearer, then even the last victim will be thrown senseless into the jaws of the insatiable demon. Therefore, each individual, conscious of his responsibility as a member of Christian and occidental culture, must in this last hour resist as much as he can, work against the scourge of humanity, against fascism and every system of the absolute state similar to it. Offer passive resistance - resistance - wherever you are, prevent the further running of this atheistic war machine before it is too late, before the last cities are a heap of ruins, like Cologne, and before the last youth of the people somewhere has bled to death for the hubris of a subhuman. Do not forget that every people deserves the government it can bear!

    Attached Files:

    TTH and papiermache like this.
  11. WackySmokey

    WackySmokey New Member

    There was a resistance to Hitler. Ever heard of operation valkry?
  12. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Hope you are not expecting a reply ? WW2 Veteran,` Sapper` ,Brian Guy sadly passed away in 2019 . :poppy:

    ltdan likes this.
  13. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    There is absolutely nothing to sugarcoat:
    The majority of us Germans only distanced ourselves from Hitler when the Allied tanks were standing in their front yard....after that, however, pretty much everyone who at least once secretly listened to the BBC was in the resistance. And otherwise they were completely clueless.
    How happy they were to be rid of the Nazis....the following years were more than revealing....
    The actual democratisation process and a truly critical questioning of one's own guilt only began (slowly and painfully) from 1968 onwards, when a new generation had grown up.
    TTH and von Poop like this.
  14. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member


    That sums up the situation pretty well. After the fall of the Third Reich there were no Nazis about as a late friend of mine who became as a young army conscript as part of the British occupational forces in the summer of 1945 declared as such.

    However the assessment from the main dissidents for expected support to overthrow the regime from the general public was negative. Generally the population remained faithful to the regime and its indoctrination or at the best were passive to the end.

    I remember the father of the new Germany, Konrad Adenauer's struggle in the 1950s with the past in trying to contain the illegal reunions of the Waffen SS...."afterall they were just soldiers as were the Wehrmacht" was one of his contentious approaches to reduce the tension.
  15. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    Admittedly, the regime in the GDR was not made up of noble philanthropists either - but with this they gleefully put salt in the West's stinging wound:


    "In the old Federal Republic, the volume was long considered political pornography. Of course it was propaganda, in a few exceptional cases even forgeries, but the Braunbuch was not a thoughtless work of fiction. On the contrary, its empirical basis proved to be extremely consistent, the error rate was well below one per cent. This distinguished the agitprop book from countless historical reference works.

    The main objection that can be raised against the Brown Book today is that it mentioned too few names. Precisely because of the compact abundance of respected West German addresses, it also unintentionally created the illusion that all those not named had had little or nothing to do with National Socialism. There could be no question of that, as the research of the past decades has shown."

    Braunbuch - Kriegs- und Naziverbrecher in der Bundesrepublik und in Westberlin
  16. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Norman Ohler joined me on the pod to discuss two remarkable lovers who led Germany's resistance against the Nazis. Harro Schulze-Boysen and Libertas Haas-Heye led a complex network of antifascists, which operated across Berlin's bohemian underworld. They infiltrated German intelligence leaked Nazi battle plans to the Allies, including the details of Hitler's surprise attack on the Soviet Union. But in a world where friend could be indistinguishable from foe, nothing could prepare Libertas and Harro for the ultimate betrayals they would suffer."

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