Stereotypes About The Red Army And Russia

I dont understand Gauporense where it is written that Soviet Doctrine assumed that the entire Red army would be destroyed and replaced every 8 months. What was the name of this doctrine? Where can we view references to this?

I read that in Glantz (1995). The truth is that the soviets were fully prepared to lose tens of millions of soldiers in war. In other words, even before WW2 started the Stalinist regime was planning to wage the bloodiest war ever.

 

The Soviet stereotypes were not only promoted by German veterans, they were simply the result of the western perceptions of WW2. The western centric view of WW2 puts the western allies as the great winners of WW2, as the decisive influence in victory. However, the western allies suffered 15 times less combat deaths than the USSR. So we have a paradox here.

So how to you rationalize that? Simple, consider that Red Army as a bunch of retards that didn't care about casualties. How to you rationalize the German operational failures in 1941-1942 when the western allies didn't do much in the war? Obviously, it was the result of the winter.

Also, the Germans had the psychological preference of the view that they were defeated by the combined allied forces, not by the USSR, since this view brings comfort to the notion that the Germans would have won if they faced the Soviets alone. However the truth is that they did face the USSR almost alone between 1941 and 1943, during this period more than 90% of the German frontline strength was in the USSR. They failed to defeat them and even lost the strategic initiative before the western allies became a relevant factor in the war.

 

The Stalinist regime was planning to wage the bloodiest war ever.

Erm, that's a pretty radical statement to make. It wasn't planning to wage war at all, initially. If the 'regime' as you prefer to call it, wanted to destroy the lives of millions and millions of people with no regard for human life then why didn't they start the war in the beginning?

Granted, the tactics used in 1941 were rather primitive, but that was due to the inexperience of the field commanders and the sudden German attack in June. The SU wasn't prepared for war, period. Stalin intended to shed no blood at war with Hitler in the first place. Nazi Germany, on the other hand, had prepared long and hard for conflict and was itching to put their new military might into action. War with the SU was imminent, Hitler had long made up his mind when he attacked in 1941. Stalin, meanwhile, was trying to bargain out a peace deal and keep his new socialist government out of it. The people had barely settled after the revolution and civil war, and now an even bigger menace was gathering steam out West. It can be justified, but that was extremely naive for a man of his status.

 

Erm, that's a pretty radical statement to make. It wasn't planning to wage war at all, initially. If the 'regime' as you prefer to call it, wanted to destroy the lives of millions and millions of people with no regard for human life then why didn't they start the war in the beginning?

Granted, the tactics used in 1941 were rather primitive, but that was due to the inexperience of the field commanders and the sudden German attack in June. The SU wasn't prepared for war, period. Stalin intended to shed no blood at war with Hitler in the first place. Nazi Germany, on the other hand, had prepared long and hard for conflict and was itching to put their new military might into action. War with the SU was imminent, Hitler had long made up his mind when he attacked in 1941. Stalin, meanwhile, was trying to bargain out a peace deal and keep his new socialist government out of it. The people had barely settled after the revolution and civil war, and now an even bigger menace was gathering steam out West. It can be justified, but that was extremely naive for a man of his status.
You can call Joe what you want,s....,and the other letters of the alphabet,but not naive.
The outbreak of WW II was the best thing Joe could expect :a new capitalist civil war with 4 years trench-war,ending with a communist revolution ?
How could he know that that a....e Adolf would defeat France in 6 weeks ?

 

Not quite sure what you were trying to say there... 4 years trench war ending with a communist revolution? The revolution was back in 1917, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Not quite sure what you were trying to say there... 4 years trench war ending with a communist revolution? The revolution was back in 1917, as far as I'm concerned.
Had to say :a second communist revolution ;WWI ended with a communist revolution in Russia,after 3 (not 4 ) years of trench warfare:Stalin (and he was not alone) expected a remake:Germany,France and Britain exhausting themselves in useless trech-war,which would end with a second communist revolution,this time in the whole of Europe .

 

Stalin (and he was not alone) expected a remake:Germany,France and Britain exhausting themselves in useless trench-war,which would end with a second communist revolution, this time in the whole of Europe .

I don't think I'd agree with this statement. Stalin was a xenophobe and had very little interest in the Internationale in fact he didn't trust them. In Stalinist Russia you could very easily find yourself in serious trouble even if you were a senior party member if you had contact with foreigners regardless of their political persuasion.

I believe that Stalin's main concerns were establishing even more firm control over his own state, potentially expanding the borders where possible as cheaply as possible and pushing forward their 5 year plans.

Fermenting communist revolution elsewhere in the world wasn't big on the list. The reason for this, besides his xenophobia, was that he realized that he couldn't exert his control over these foreigners. The last think he would have wanted to see was another European country, say Germany perhaps, become communist and eclipse the USSR as the premier Soviet state.

 

I don't think I'd agree with this statement. Stalin was a xenophobe and had very little interest in the Internationale in fact he didn't trust them. In Stalinist Russia you could very easily find yourself in serious trouble even if you were a senior party member if you had contact with foreigners regardless of their political persuasion.

I believe that Stalin's main concerns were establishing even more firm control over his own state, potentially expanding the borders where possible as cheaply as possible and pushing forward their 5 year plans.

Fermenting communist revolution elsewhere in the world wasn't big on the list. The reason for this, besides his xenophobia, was that he realized that he couldn't exert his control over these foreigners. The last think he would have wanted to see was another European country, say Germany perhaps, become communist and eclipse the USSR as the premier Soviet state.
Well said Phylo! Trotsky was an internationalist and we all know what happened to him..................

 

Your interpretation is quite acceptable to me, Stig. See his Socialism in One Country doctrine.

 

I don't think I'd agree with this statement. Stalin was a xenophobe and had very little interest in the Internationale in fact he didn't trust them. In Stalinist Russia you could very easily find yourself in serious trouble even if you were a senior party member if you had contact with foreigners regardless of their political persuasion.

I believe that Stalin's main concerns were establishing even more firm control over his own state, potentially expanding the borders where possible as cheaply as possible and pushing forward their 5 year plans.

Fermenting communist revolution elsewhere in the world wasn't big on the list. The reason for this, besides his xenophobia, was that he realized that he couldn't exert his control over these foreigners. The last think he would have wanted to see was another European country, say Germany perhaps, become communist and eclipse the USSR as the premier Soviet state.
That Stalin did not trust foreign communist,I know (purge of the Comintern ),Stalin did not trust anybody ;every one was suspected of deviationism.
But the fact remains that the outbreak of WW II was a present for the SU and communism :no danger of a capitalist coalition against the SU (that this was theoretical is irrelevant,it happened in 1919-1920,and if you are that paranoic as Stalin ?),no danger of a war on two fronts (do not forget Japan !),4 hostile capitalist states who would weaken-exterminate themselves (for a marxist,there was no difference between capitalism and fascism ,the latter beying the last phase of the former,there ciould be no difference,otherwise Lenin would be wrong,perish the thought ,a very dangerous thought ):Lenin had said that capitalism would disappear due to its internal contradictions,and what was the picture for a true marxist :a capitalist civil war for the possession of markets and raw materials ,thus a proof that Lenin was right.

 

a new capitalist civil war with 4 years trench-war
You said that, LJ, not me

Fermenting communist revolution elsewhere in the world wasn't big on the list.
I don't know, but that was one of the main ideas and goals of the USSR, and the October revolution initially. A global communist government was what Lenin wanted in the beginning, I don't know about Stalin, he had his own agenda going on.

eclipse the USSR as the premier Soviet state
I don't think anybody was going to eclipse anyone, as any communist government was going to be greeted in arms, treated as brothers, not rivals. Cuba & China serve as my examples. I didn't notice any rivalry between the USSR and the aforementioned two.

 

"The Heart Of The World Revolution" - case and point.

 

That Stalin did not trust foreign communist,I know (purge of the Comintern ),Stalin did not trust anybody ;every one was suspected of deviationism.
But the fact remains that the outbreak of WW II was a present for the SU and communism :no danger of a capitalist coalition against the SU (that this was theoretical is irrelevant,it happened in 1919-1920,and if you are that paranoic as Stalin ?),no danger of a war on two fronts (do not forget Japan !),4 hostile capitalist states who would weaken-exterminate themselves (for a marxist,there was no difference between capitalism and fascism ,the latter beying the last phase of the former,there ciould be no difference,otherwise Lenin would be wrong,perish the thought ,a very dangerous thought ):Lenin had said that capitalism would disappear due to its internal contradictions,and what was the picture for a true marxist :a capitalist civil war for the possession of markets and raw materials ,thus a proof that Lenin was right.
Socialism in One Country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is one of the pillars of Stalinism and its not anything to do with World Revolution, the path that Lenin or Trotsky favoured

 

Shit, I spent months and months studying the damned theory 30 years ago and it was in Wikipedia all the time

 

Shit, I spent months and months studying the damned theory 30 years ago and it was in Wikipedia all the time
Now Za, everyone knows that Wiki only started in 2001 -if you went looking for it 30 years ago you wouldnt have found it!!!!

Why not peruse these links???? You may find them more to your taste!!

"Socialism in One Country"

http://www.janus.umd.edu/issues/sp07/Szpakowski_SocialisminOneCountry.pdf

Editorial Comment: "Socialism in One Country" (June 1942)

Actually no, just give us your take on the whole thing - Was Stalin planning to take over the world??

 

Like I said, Stalin had his own agenda and plans for perverting communism.

its thesis is held to be antithetical to Marxist Socialism by Trotskyists and others.

I tend to agree with the statement on Wikipedia, Stalin's ideas had little, or nothing to do with the ideas of true socialism, it was all about power pretty much. The 'socialist' ideas were conveniently harnessed to fit his ideology, and just served as a front for his regime, I should think. If he was proposed with some other more favourable theory or ideology that could have been more useful, he would have gone for that instead of communism.

 

Shit, I spent months and months studying the damned theory 30 years ago and it was in Wikipedia all the time

lololo

 

Yeah, Gott, should have waited for Al Gore to invent the Internet