Rudolph Hess

Discussion in 'The Third Reich' started by Wise1, May 31, 2004.

  1. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

    I have got the book not read it yet but having flicked through it it seems an intresting book and could you elaborate on your post. Like Spidge says do you have a intrest or connection to the book regards, Jason
  2. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Hello and welcome to the forum.

    Quite a lot has been spoken and written about Hess since his flight to Scotland and a lot appears to be conjecture and theories.

  3. Len Trim

    Len Trim Senior Member

    Having guarded Hess at Spandau in the mid 70s I have not the slightest doubt that it was him. He still looked like his photo in my current school history book!
  4. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

    Having guarded Hess at Spandau in the mid 70s I have not the slightest doubt that it was him. He still looked like his photo in my current school history book!
    Len, please tell us more!
  5. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin


    I am sure that you are right.
    Hess has that facial expression of "once seen, never forgotten"

  6. Heimbrent

    Heimbrent Well-Known Member

    Having guarded Hess at Spandau in the mid 70s I have not the slightest doubt that it was him. He still looked like his photo in my current school history book!

    You really guarded Rudolf Hess?!

    Len, please tell us more!

  7. spidge


    It may not be a face only a mother could love however he had distinctive and memorable features.
  8. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Is there any mention of a Lt. Col. A.P. Scotland, Military Intelligence in any of the files you read?

    I'm currently reading his book called 'The London Cage' and Hess gets a mention and Scotland was involved in his interrogations but he states in the book that he can not go into detail as the files are still secret. The book was published in 1953 so that does make sense.

    Kevin1 likes this.
  9. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    I agree with Smudger Jnr, we will probably never know the truth, but point iv) in original post is interesting - British to evacuate Iraq - what was the estimate of Iraq's oil reserves at that time?
  10. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek

  11. Ciar2001

    Ciar2001 Member

  12. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    There must be more conspiracy theories about Hess than Kennedy, Princess Diana and Dr. David Kelly combined. Last time this story did the rounds it was Ian Fleming doing the luring.

    And I’m not sure how, as the author claims, the capture of Hess was a pivotal turning point of the war?

    His arrival caused more suspicion with our Allies than anything else, particularly in the US. And why lure Hess to Britain, there were much bigger fish to fry.

  13. Ciar2001

    Ciar2001 Member

    I think it's a way to sell books but interesting all the same ;-)
  14. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    Too true :)
  15. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    He was most likely acting on his own and probably thought that there were influencial people here who he could parly with on the balance of power in Europe.He must have been motivated by the thought that among a certain set here,there were enough Hitler and German admirers to influence British foreign policy.Apparently the visit was not endorsed by Hitler but afterall Hess was Hitler's deputy and thought he knew the English and being aware of the intended Russian invasion must have thought there was a chance that Great Britain could be kept out of the future struggle for the future of Europe.

    A case of attempting to impress the Fuhrer which came to nought

    In a similar way,Ribbentrop put himself forward as a German specialist who understood the British mentality but whose only experience of the Anglo Saxons was his time in Canada.Hitler must have been convinced of this when he appointed Ribbentrop as the Ambassador to Great Britain during the prewar period.
  16. Medic7922

    Medic7922 Senior Member

    This subject reminded me of my time at Keogh Barracks the RAMC training centre near Aldershot, During my time at Keogh we had to undertake training in the old Mytchett house where Hess was kept, if my memory serves me I believe Hess's dog is buried in its grounds

    On May 20, 1941, Rudolf Hess was transported from the Tower of London to Camp Z which was at Mytchett Place. This had been specially set up for his arrival with heavy security and bugging devices. Hess spent 13 months at Camp Z, which was the scene for one of his failed suicide attempts; he had thrown himself off a balcony on June 15, 1941.

    The June 1942 move from Mytchett Place was to become notable following the release of MI5 files in 1999. Previously unfounded rumours had claimed that Hess was moved because intelligence reports indicated that a Polish group was planning to break into the Camp Z, kidnap Hess, and beat or kill him by way of revenge for Nazi atrocities in Poland. The MI5 files included a reference to reports of a gun battle between Polish soldiers and guards at Mytchett, although no precise details were given, so the link is not conclusive.[2]
  17. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    BBC News - Witness recalls Nazi Rudolf Hess landing in Scotland

    Exactly 70 years ago, one of the most bizarre episodes of World War II unfolded on a farm to the south of Glasgow.

    On 10 May 1941, Adolf Hitler's deputy Rudolf Hess parachuted into Scotland, landing in a field near Eaglesham.

    The prominent Nazi had flown solo for nearly 1,000 miles from Bavaria in a Messerschmitt Bf 110, apparently on a peace mission in the days leading up to Germany's invasion of Russia.

    He was promptly arrested by a pitchfork-wielding local farmer who took Hess to his farmhouse before alerting the authorities.

    Few eyewitnesses to Hess' arrival are still alive.

    But John McVicar, 80, has vivid memories of the day when the Nazi leader parachuted into Scotland.

    He was 10 years old and living in Busby at the time, near to where Hess' plane went down.

    Mr McVicar recalled the approach of Hess' plane shortly before it crashed.

    He told BBC Scotland: "It was a Saturday. It was a very pleasant day - sun and cloud - and as I recall it my father and I were at the back of the house under a great big chestnut tree, kicking a football about, when we heard the unsynchronised engines of a German plane.

    "Now that was unusual during daytime and it flew over the chestnut tree.

    "My father said: 'Look at him, look at him' but I missed him just as he went past.

    "And then, strangely - I have never known the reason - we heard cannon fire.

    "My father shouted: 'It is the RAF, they are after the bastard - they are after him'. But there was no RAF plane there.

    "So my only explanation is that the plane was armed in some way and Hess was getting rid of the ammunition because obviously he was running out of fuel."

    'Seemed strange'
    Mr McVicar estimates Hess's plane was flying low - at between 1,000ft and 1,500ft - which seemed strange to him at the time because Hess bailed out.

    "It was very, very unusual. We could see it wasn't a bomber and we recognised it as an ME 110 - it was recognisable to all of us in these days.

    "So it seemed strange, but we didn't think about it. We just thought [the German pilot] had got lost."

    Mr McVicar said less than an hour later, people started to gather at the Busby HQ of the Home Guard - now Busby Masonic Lodge - because they had heard Hess was being brought there.

    He continued: "I and all the children gathered up there, waiting for him to be brought in. I got a bit fed up and went back to the park with my football to practice shooting in.

    "In the interval, he was brought in, but my sister and brother were there and saw him being brought in.

    "It is said that he had broken his ankle. That also seemed strange since I was told he walked in.

    "About 20 minutes after that - I was going back and forward from the park - the press arrived.

    "We expected a couple of reporters but there were more than that, so we thought: why is that? Perhaps it was just unusual that a plane came down in the middle of the day."

    Mr McVicar said he walked back and forth in the two hours in which Hess was at Busby HQ, waiting for the German to emerge.

    He said: "What I did see was the army arriving from Maryhill barracks.

    'Quite civilised'
    "What struck me as strange was that it wasn't just a truck with a few soldiers. There were several officers, a couple of staff cars, which meant to me 'this is important'.

    "I didn't understand what was going on but I knew there was something strange about it."

    Mr McVicar said it was "quite civilised" when the Home Guard took charge of Hess.

    "He was wearing his pilot's gear when he was taken there and he certainly was able to walk. If he had a broken ankle, it was well disguised."

    Mr McVicar said villagers were "absolutely stunned" when the identity of the pilot emerged, although no-one could figure out why he had come to Scotland.

    "The locals thought this was wonderful, what had happened to the village.

    "It was a very exciting time for everyone - we were famous for a couple of days."

    One engine from Hess' Messerschmidt Bf 110 is now on display in the National Museum of Flight in East Fortune, East Lothian.

    Hess' reasons for flying to Scotland have never been fully explained, sparking countless conspiracy theories over the years.

    But it seems he was attempting to reach the Duke of Hamilton, who he believed had sufficient political clout to help him negotiate peace with the United Kingdom.

    As it turned out, Hess was arrested and later sentenced at the Nuremberg trials to life imprisonment. He died at Spandau prison in 1987.

    Mr McVicar said at the time of Hess's landing in Scotland, local people came up with their own conclusions as to why Hess was there.

    "When Russia was invaded [by Germany] in June 1941, we thought this must be the reason - Hess didn't want a war on two fronts. That was the conclusion we reached. We didn't think he was mad - we thought he was there with a purpose. That was how the civilians felt about it."

    Mr McVicar doubts the whole truth about Hess's visit will ever emerge.

    "It is one of those mysteries in history - I wish we did know," he added.
  18. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Thanks, it is good to see an eye witness report of the Historic event.

  19. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    James S likes this.
  20. Jedburgh22

    Jedburgh22 Very Senior Member

    Seems like another Victory for the PC brigade - Hess should have been allowed to rest in his family plot - the man is dead - he paid for crimes by being a pawn in a power game between the Allies.

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