MOD ALREADY TRANSFERRING WW2 SERVICE FILES TO UK NATIONAL ARCHIVES 2021

I’m not even sure there is a separate form for NoK anymore, John, but I could be wrong - or stoopid.

 

I've had eyes on 3 new sets of records sent by families who I recommended apply for these over a year ago now. I was amazed to see the colour pdfs with on average 35-40 pages. All medical history was included and only some personal next of kin details redacted.

The trouble is........now I have to start working on identifying the British and Indian General Hospitals nominated in the medical pages!!

 

You're probably spot on Martin. My granddad's records, and my wife's granddad's record, are the only NoK applications I've ever made, and that was when it was all done via the Royal Mail and hard copy applications.

Best of luck Steve but it really is hit and miss with what you get from TNA.....sometimes all medical details are redacted, sometimes they're all included

 

To research "old" interpretations by Kew and MoD of legislation covering archives use the UK Govt Web Archive:

Archive Timeline - UK Government Web Archive

Using this, and going back nearly ten years:

UK Government Web Archive

UK Government Web Archive

The old forms available from the last link.

Extract:

"Service records of deceased service personnel
The MOD is the custodian of the records of service of service personnel and Home Guard records until they are opened to general public access at the National Archives.
Subject to the payment of an administration fee of £30 per record and provision of a death certificate (except where death was in service), certain information can be provided from the records of service of service personnel on request under the publication scheme.
All information contained in the Home Guard records will normally be provided in full.
The scheme allows for information in these records to be exempt from the general provisions of the Freedom of Information Act by virtue of section 21(1) of the Act (information accessible to an applicant by other means).
Request for service records of deceased service personnel
Under the scheme, and in recognition of the duty of care owed to the family of the deceased subject, for a period of 25 years following the date of death of the subject and without the consent of the next of kin, MOD will disclose only: etc."

FOI Act section 21:

"21 Information accessible to applicant by other means.

(1) Information which is reasonably accessible to the applicant otherwise than under section 1 is exempt information.

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1)—

(a) information may be reasonably accessible to the applicant even though it is accessible only on payment, and

(b) information is to be taken to be reasonably accessible to the applicant if it is information which the public authority or any other person is obliged by or under any enactment to communicate (otherwise than by making the information available for inspection) to members of the public on request, whether free of charge or on payment."

(3) For the purposes of subsection (1), information which is held by a public authority and does not fall within subsection (2)(b) is not to be regarded as reasonably accessible to the applicant merely because the information is available from the public authority itself on request, unless the information is made available in accordance with the authority’s publication scheme and any payment required is specified in, or determined in accordance with, the scheme."


The UK Cabinet Office issue statistics on FOI requests:

Freedom of Information statistics: July to September 2024 bulletin

In theory there are committees at Kew which work, but the latest trend is that they have decided to not publish their minutes, and have removed the "A to Z" on the website but it can be found on TNA pages from the Web Archive. So nobody knows what they think about Kew being in the doghouse with the Cabinet Office, apart from members.

User Advisory Group - no minutes since March 2024. Members get expenses only. Have been informative on service records in the past.

Advisory Council - no minutes since May 2024. The Master of the Rolls sits on this. Members are paid these days.

Non-Executive Directors - no minutes since July 2024. Members paid, always have been.

 

That's pretty much what I had concluded.

 

I think you're right - and some of the redactions I've seen make me think there is an over-compensation for the amount of sensitive personal data released in the WW1 records.

 

Applying to the National Archives for the release of an Army service record with a copy of a recently purchased death certificate (handwritten) the reply by email is that it is "not legible". They have been provided with the actual document number in their archives, service number, date of birth etc.
However, they provide a 'helpful' link of how and where to purchase a death certificate ...! They are "extremely busy" and it takes, on average, 10 to 12 months for them to deal with an enquiry (see attached extract).
(I've now re-sent the copy of the death certificate, with a typed transcription which one hopes is both acceptable and "legible", plus copies and transcriptions of the newspaper obituary, burial record, etc).
Rather frustrating and I'm not impressed, to be honest. This seems to be how it operates.

 

It can be extremely frustrating dealing with TNA at times. You've done the right thing, I can only say perseverance is the key. Fingers crossed you get the record quicker than their quoted times.

Best.
John.

 

I applied for my fathers service records on the 18th of September 2023
i still do not have them. extremely frustrated does not come close to how i feel.
last communication from them was " the records will be sent in Due course."
that was two months ago!

Edit to add 2023 is NOT a typo

 

A House of Commons Briefing Paper was published last year:

"Constituents may contact a Member of Parliament seeking advice on how to access military service records. This may be their own service record, the record of a member of family (alive or deceased) or if they have a general interest in an individual or regiment."

Small download of 117 KB here: https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7197/CBP-7197.pdf

 

Here is the last email from TNA dated 16/01/2025 since then just radio silence


Thank you for your email.

I can confirm that your request has not been forgotten about, and is currently being progressed.
Your record will be reviewed by a colleague in due course, and will be sent to you as soon as this has been done.
Thank you for your patience, and we apologise for the delay.


Kind regards,

MOD Access Team

 

A neighbour was researching her Grandfather and I advised her to apply for his Service records . She received a reply from the MoD stating the file had been transferred to the National Archives ,they then provided her with a reference and a link on how to apply again. She followed the link ,filled in the form ,then received a reply stating as he was born over 115 years ago this was `paid` research and a different link was sent to her . She completed the new link and received a reply three days later stating they do have a file but cannot guarantee it is 100% the right file but as near as possible based on the information supplied ? Before the order can be processed they are asking for a payment of £24.35 with a waiting time of 20 days for delivery . However due to receiving 500 applications per week that twenty days may now be Ten to twelve months once the payment is received .

I`ve no experience of applying to the National Archives so couldn`t advise further . Is all the above pretty standard stuff in relation to Fee /Link/Waiting time ?

Thanks

Kyle

 

yes with the exception of the 10 to 12 months which in my case is now 18 months


Tim

 

Based on other member’s experiences timescale & payment sounds about right Kyle.

I put in an application for my father’s record about 6 months ago so I must be about half way there. I’m in no hurry as I obtained a copy from his regiment over 15 years ago.

 

Thank you both.


Kyle

 

Of late, I've noticed an amended 'online' service record request process, the subject's year of birth affecting the request process. Also, I've never been charged a fee for any of my requests but, then again, I've never requested a record for someone born over 115 years ago, so tip of the hat to Mr Jinks for clarifying why there can sometimes be a fee. Thought I'd check it out.........and hey presto........



Oddly though, I do have the record of someone born in 1905. Now I'm assuming for me to get a copy of this record via the online process, there would be a fee, is that the same fee for ordering via TNA's website? With all that said, it's freely available if I can get to Kew, or get someone to copy it for me.

John.

 

Statistics for FOI requests for the year 2024 were published today.

Freedom of Information statistics: October to December 2024 bulletin

"Important note on The National Archives
In February 2021 the Ministry of Defence began the transfer of historic service personnel records to The National Archives. There are approximately 9.7 million records which will be transferred over 6 years. Having transferred over three quarters of this collection already (approx. 7.7 million records), this has resulted in a 308% increase in the volume of requests received by The National Archives in 2024, compared to 2022. This has impacted the overall percentage of their requests responded to ‘in time’ as well as the overall timeliness across all monitored bodies."

The 2023 to 2024 increase:

 

I sent off an enquiry to the TNA for my grandpa's records, hoping that these may include the list of ships he was assigned to as a DEMS gunner. They responded quickly, but at the rate of enquiries everyone has spoken of upthread, I'm thinking I might be in my 60s before I get a response .

Given they've done away with the NOK requirement, I've got a feeling the result may be less than stellar - the FOI Act being the main stumbling block to a complete set of non-redacted records, although it will be darn interesting to make a comparison to what they supplied previously, (minus the ships list), should it contain any redactions. . . .

"GW COWELL (Service Number: 3855604)

Please note, the information stored on our database is limited, and sometimes contains inaccuracies such as spelling mistakes and typographical errors. This means that we are unable to guarantee that the record we have identified is the one you wish to see. However, it is the closest match that we have been able to find using the information which you gave us.

This record is currently closed under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and will need to be sensitivity reviewed before we can determine whether it is possible to open it to the public.

This department is extremely busy, receiving around 500 new requests each week [my bolding]. This has led to delays in the service. It currently takes our team an average of ten to twelve months to complete requests for closed records, though we will send you an update on the progress of your request by 04/06/2025 18:00.

Please note that in order to process requests as quickly as possible, we will be unable to answer requests for updates on specific cases. We are also unable to prioritise specific requests, or to take special personal circumstances into consideration."

So now I'm wondering if I should throw my grandma's and great uncle's service record request hat into the ring too - before something goes pear shaped and it all comes to a screeching halt.

 

Best of luck, I hope the record turns up with your grandpa's list of ships. I was lucky, I applied for my granddad's DEMS record of service in 2010, it came completely unredacted and with a list of all the ships he sailed on. Apparently, getting the list of ships was extremely lucky.

There is an alternative way to get his list of ships, I can't remember how but Hugh MacLean is the almanac on Merchant shipping, hopefully he'll be along soon and help you accordingly.

Regards.
John.

 

Hi Nanette,
Remember, as a MRA DEMS gunner, his service record will probably not list his sea service. Instead, it is likely they reference that sea service to a maritime card.
So, if it is just sea-service that is the focus of your enquiry to TNA, then my advice is to request WO 436/7
Make sure you give his details as you know them as they will have to extract his cards from a box of other names but this should not be a big deal, probably no more than two or three cards. Good luck keep us posted.

Regards
Hugh