Merchant Navy CR card help

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by AmyLewsley, Jan 20, 2018.

  1. AmyLewsley

    AmyLewsley New Member

    Hi everyone
    New to the site and hoping somebody could please explain the merchant naval cards attached for me? These are my great great grandads. I have posted on a few facebook pages and they have suggested they are ship numbers and either sign on or off dates. So my questions are

    1. What do the numbers and dates mean on the cr2 card?

    2. If they are ship numbers does this mean he was on the carare all the other times with that being the official ship?

    3. Why does he have 2 cr1 cards?

    Any help much appreciated. Thank you

    Attached Files:

  2. Roy Martin

    Roy Martin Senior Member

    Carare was an Elder Fyffe 'banana boat' as was Ariguani. At some point your great grand dad was on naval service, that is what the T124 means, he remained in the MN but was 'subject to naval discipline'. He probably lost his life when HMS Audacity was torpedoed, you can find more about that by doing a Google search. His Discharge Book should be at the National Archives.
  3. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Medal Card of Knowles, James Penkeyman Place of Birth: Formby Date of Birth:... | The National Archives
    Reference: BT 351/1/78132
    Medal Card of Knowles, James Penkeyman
    Place of Birth: Formby
    Date of Birth: 1879
    Date: [1914-1925]
    Held by: The National Archives, Kew
    Legal status: Public Record(s)
    Language: English
    Registrar General of Shipping and Seamen, 1872-1992
    Closure status: Open Document, Open Description

    UK, Shipping and Seamen WWI and WWII Rolls of Honour, 1914-1945
    Name: James Penkeyman Knowles
    Death Age: 62
    Birth Year: 1879
    Death Date: 27 Dec 1941
    Death Country: United Kingdom
    Attachment below

    UK, Commonwealth War Graves, 1914-1921 and 1939-1947
    Name: James Penkeyman Knowles
    Age: 62
    Birth Date: abt 1879
    Death Date: 22 Dec 1941
    Cemetery: Naval Memorials United Kingdom Liverpool
    Burial Country: England
    Father: James Knowles
    Mother: Alice Knowles
    Regimental Number: 541899
    Region or Memorial: Memorial Register

    UK, British Army and Navy Birth, Marriage and Death Records, 1730-1960
    Name: James Penkyman Knowles
    Event: Death
    Birth Date: 19 Jul 1879
    Birth Place: Formby, Liverpool, Lancs.
    Death Date: 22 Dec 1941
    Death Age: 62


    Attached Files:

  4. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    CL1, ozzy16, Hugh MacLean and 2 others like this.
  5. AmyLewsley

    AmyLewsley New Member

    Thanks Roy, I have had no luck with a discharge book. He did die on tbe hms audacity yes, his name is on the memorial in Liverpool
  6. AmyLewsley

    AmyLewsley New Member

  7. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    NAP = means Naval Auxiliary Personnel.
    They are ship's official numbers including the date of engagement. They are often incomplete.
    No he was on lots of ships will decipher them tomorrow unless anybody else does.
    A CR1 card would be completed in a port Mercantile Marine Office at the same time that a new discharge book was issued to the seaman or an old one checked.

    I am afraid his Discharge Book will not be at the National Archives.

    CL1, ozzy16 and Tricky Dicky like this.
  8. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    NAP = Naval Auxiliary Personnel.

    Edit: You've done it again Hugh. Beaten by my slow typing!!
    Hugh MacLean likes this.
  9. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    Audacity film

    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
    CL1, ozzy16, Hugh MacLean and 2 others like this.
  10. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Hello Amy,
    As promised the breakdown of the cards.

    147345 - CARARE – 17.7.1926
    141870 – BAYANO – 30.8.1926
    134701 – CHANGUINOLA – 16.10.1926
    134702 – MOTAGUA – 29.11.1926
    148890 – ARIGUANI – 11.4.1927
    148890 – ARIGUANI – 27.6.1927
    148890 – ARIGUANI – 25.9.1927
    148890 – ARIGUANI – 7.5.1928
    134701 – CHANGUINOLA – 8.6.1929
    132040 – PATUCA – 8.8.1929
    148935 – OROTAVA – 8.11.1929
    148890 – ARIGUANI – 27.12.1930
    137796 – CAMITO – 31.8.1936
    147896 – CAVINA – 12.4.1937
    145889 – MANISTEE – 2.9.1940
    137796 – CAMITO – 16.9.1940
    HMS AUDACITY lost when ship sunk - 22.12.1941.

    All ships were owned/managed by Elders & Fyffe Ltd. It is likely that he was on T124X agreements on MANISTEE, CAMITO and AUDACITY.

    T124X agreements are held at the National Archives in Kew in piece reference BT 390. You may wish to check file BT 390/69
    Best viewed by visit to Kew or via a researcher.
  11. Roy Martin

    Roy Martin Senior Member

    Manistee was sunk in February 1941, whilst serving as an Ocean Boarding Vessel.
    Hugh MacLean likes this.
  12. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

  13. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Yes, both OBV - both commissioned, both HMS.
    Roy Martin likes this.

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