Markings and Insignia for Armour in the BEF

Discussion in '1940' started by LondonNik, Jan 3, 2011.

  1. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    tank 1940.jpg tank back.jpg One more in the post today.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016

    JERICHO Junior Member


    I think it's the same tank

  3. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I think that you're right, Jericho. Any idea of location ? On the back of Keith's picture, it looks like "Erbeuteter Belg. Tank"...I don't think it can be in Belgium though. These captions are frequently so inaccurate that they cast serious doubts on whether German support troops received any armour recognition training !
  4. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Another abandoned Matilda 1. Captioned by the seller as on the Dyle presumably removed from an album with references to that location.


    The background looks as if it could be around Leuven / Brussel.

    The Morris-Commercial 8cwt "DON" (Z)3920227 from contract V3517 looks as if it could have a 3rd Div sign on the wing. Certainly a circular form.

    Did 1st Army Tank Brigade abandon any armour in the Forêt de Soignies / Zoniënwoud prior to or during the withdrawal ? From the towing cables, it looks as if this could have been a breakdown rather than a battle casualty. If the mounted Wehrmacht unit is indeed advancing then the tank was being pulled away from them.
  5. Bob42100

    Bob42100 Member

    Rich, That A11 is the one with the mine plow, it is RMY-945 T-5591 GOUROCK.

  6. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    tank burnt out 1940.jpg Came in the post to day. Looks like it has been set on fire/hit.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
  7. BrianM59

    BrianM59 Senior Member

    Vickers VIB? Will try to blow it up and enhance to see if there's anything in that patch on left front plate - can't see a white recognition patch?
  8. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    tank close up.jpg Close up but not very good.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
  9. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    3 or 9 ?
  10. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    tank burnt out 1940 bef.jpg on the larger photo of this tank looks like it could be 51 or 31 ?
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
  11. BrianM59

    BrianM59 Senior Member

    Yes - I blew it up and lightened it and I get '51' - which in 1944 would be senior regiment in a tank brigade, but surely not in 1940? Thanks morris - my eyes are OK then?
  12. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    This was what the seller said.

    British armored tank Mk.VI march 1940 photo
  13. BrianM59

    BrianM59 Senior Member

    Well, nothing doing in March 1940; no British armour had been engaged in France as far as I know, and the first fighting wasn't until May, so mistaken caption, unless this was burned out in an accident? Of course later on, it could have been abandoned and set on fire, although this does seem to have been hit amidships by the marks? I'm no expert and I don't have that kind of detailed knowledge of relevant units to hand. There may well be some identification on the near side mudguard, but I can't tell at the moment - thanks for posting, very interesting....
  14. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    I thought march was not right but 1940 OK.
  15. LondonNik

    LondonNik Senior Member

    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  16. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    Frankreich Kämpfe Britische Panzer Tank Mk.VI Vormarsch 1940 Foto Thats what the seller put on it . :pipe:
  17. BrianM59

    BrianM59 Senior Member

    'Vormarsch' means 'advance' as well as 'march' - and it's march as in 'forward march' - the month would be 'März' as far as I know - some German speakers on here can verify that. So that's the date gone, but a caption that says "French campaign, British Tank MkVI advancing -1940 photo"- would still be a credible caption I think. I don't get a desert feel at all, I still get French from the buildings and background and the ironwork on the tank appears to be the frame of a burnt out storage box on the rear? Although you do see such pictures with wildly differing captions, the jury's still out for me....
  18. BrianM59

    BrianM59 Senior Member

    And now I look more closely at various sources and it does appear that the structure on the rear hull is the large toolbox that was attached to desert versions of the VIB....curiouser and curiouser....
  19. BrianM59

    BrianM59 Senior Member

    From :

    "Two different styles of AoS sign could be seen on Australian Matildas:- the "early" style, which closely followed the UK vehicle marking system, was seen on the tanks of the 1st Aust Army Tk Bn. This consisted of a white "51" on a red square."

    There were three Australian Cavalry regiments in North Africa, the 6th, 7th and 9th, as part of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force. Following the logic of British markings, '51' would be the senior regiment - the 6th, which fought at Bardia, in Palestine and Syria. But if '51' denotes the 1st Australian Army Tank Battalion, they didn't fight in North Africa at all, but in New Guinea in 1943 onwards, by when presumably they had shed any Vickers VIB's and used Matildas? Someone must know better than me.....
  20. JCB

    JCB Senior Member

    Real rarity here, one of the 21 Guy Lizard armoured command vehicles , Not all 21 with Bef as some used in western desert ( unless they were shipped back) .Showing my ignorance why is the census number prefix WD ?

    Attached Files:

    Colonel Durnford likes this.

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