How did Sgt Clive Marshall Oldham R.E. die?

Discussion in 'Royal Engineers' started by researchingreg, Dec 12, 2013.

  1. researchingreg

    researchingreg Well-Known Member

    I am trying to find out how Sgt Clive Marshall Oldham 1885412 R.E. died on 10 Sept 1944 aged 29. He is buried at Caserta War Cemetery, Grave Ref: I,D,4.

    According to information I have heard it was not straight forward. Can anybody cast any light on it?
  2. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron


    I presume this is the man ?




    Service No:


    Date of Death:





    Royal Engineers

    11 Map Reproduction Sec.


    Mentioned in Despatches and 2 Bars

    Grave Reference

    I, D, 4.



    Additional Information:
    Son of John Stanley Marshall Oldham, and of Alice Oldham, of Southampton.

    You will need to supply the info you have that contradicts or queries the CWGC details

  3. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran


    The fact that the date of death is listed at 10th September 1944 when the war at that time was hundreds of miles North at the Gothic Line would indicate that Caserta being close to Naples

    had something to do with mines etc which were still being discovered since Naples had been freed on 1st October 1943 - we were still subject to the normal sicknesses and accidents as anyone

    else so if you think there was something untoward about his death then please let us know as we then might be able to ease your thinking...

  4. researchingreg

    researchingreg Well-Known Member

    It would make sense that he was in a Map Reproduction Section as he was an artist. My mother has one of his pictures. She knew him quite well and she heard that (and this may not be true), he committed suicide on guard duty. I wanted to find out whether this was true. Also did he serve in North Africa?
  5. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    You can apply for his service records from the MoD , cost 30 quid but it'll help answer your questions.
  6. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Thanks to Lee's Arcre search engine, War Diary references if you haven't already got them:

    Reference:WO 170/1897
    Description:Map Reproduction Sections: 11 and 12
    Date: 1944 Jan.- Dec.

    Reference:WO 169/11062
    Description:11 Map Reproduction Sec.
    Date: 1943 July- Dec.
    [WO 169 is for forces serving in the Middle East, including Aden, East Africa, Sudan, Malta, Persia and Iraq.]

    From Army RoH:

    Name: Clive Oldham
    Given Initials: C M
    Rank: Serjeant
    Death Date: 10 Sep 1944
    Number: 1885412
    Birth Place: Hampshire
    Residence: Southampton
    Branch at Enlistment: Other Corps
    Theatre of War: Italy
    Regiment at Death: Royal Engineers
    Branch at Death: Other Corps

    Probably his Birth :

    Name: Clive M Oldham
    Mother's Maiden Name: Manns
    Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1915
    Registration District: Andover
    Inferred County: Hampshire
    Volume: 2c
    Page: 455
  7. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron


    A further thought on the subject.

    You mention:

    In my own Regiment's Diaries there is the following entry:
    GSW is shorthand for Gunshot wound.

    I just wonder if the same type of entry would have been made in the Regimental Diary of the regiment he was serving in at the time in question ?

  8. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    THREE gunshot wounds to the head?
    Must have been a determined suicide, but if the first was fatal, who fired the other two?

    Don't worry, it doesn't merit a response, any death during the War is as good (or bad) as any other, we have no idea of the pressures or influences on someone 70 years ago.
  9. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron


    Not to dwell on the matter, but it could have been fired from a Tommy-gun, which were standard issue.

  10. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    A Sergeant on Guard duty…corporals were usually stuck with that a job - with Sergeants hovering with the Orderly Officer…and a full night's sleep…!


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