Help with abbreviations and meanings

Thanks again for your help Graham, My best option would be number 4. I will look into asking shortly

Mike

 

This looks an interesting publication so I have ordered it.

Cheers Mike

 

So just to be clear Graham are these the diaries I need to get copies from Kew?
1577 Pln. WO 166/13236 1943 Jan-July
1574 Pln. WO 166/13233 1943 Jan-May
1574 Platoon (RASC) WO 169/12083 1943 June-Dec
Is that how I identify what I need copying from Kew?

Did you get chance to look through the 78 Div RASC Coy diary for 1944?

Mike

 

Hi Mike
I will reply and check and confirm the diary references. Re the 78 diary, I have made a start to read it in a bit more detail and wanted to make some notes before replying.
Give me a few more days.
Graham

 

Hi Mike
Apologies that this has taken so long. I think I stand by those Kew document references as most likely to be relevant and possibly provide references to other units that you could also investigate if you want to have a better understanding of the context they were operating in.
Re my 78 Div RASC diary. Apologies its actually 78 Div Headquarters so not a 'company' diary. There is however a 78 Coy Diary, WO170/2422 for 1944. That would be worth getting and might tidy up whether it is related to 78 Division or the numbering is coincidental. There is also a diary WO170/5683 continuing into1945.
If I had any plans to go to Kew I would have gladly had a look at these for you. In particular the diary for the 1577 / 1574 HAA / LAA Regt Platoon as I'm quite interested in the AA defences in the outer parts of SW London particularly around the water works treatment works that are scattered throughout the area.
Any further queries, I'll try my best to answer.

 

Thanks for that Graham,

I am wondering if the war diaries cover a month at a time or longer periods? I have seen someone who will copy the diaries at a charge of 10p per sheet but he says the diaries average 400 pages each. So if I get them all it could be quite expensive.

Mike

 

Hi Mike
I can see your concern about the cost spiralling especially if there is always the possibility the interpretation I and others have made is incorrect. Obviously if you are able to go to Kew yourself then it doesn't matter. If its clearly up the wrong avenue, you can just return it to the desk.
If you are thinking of asking for just relevant months to be copied then that is relatively easy to do as the diaries are highly likely to be structured with a series of monthly 'intelligence summary' sheets which contain the overall narrative, locations, activities, weather and movements of men although only officers are likely to be named. These can vary in detail with a month covered by just a couple of sheets in a particularly sparse diary to perhaps 30 sheets for a single month in a 70 Med Reg diary that I have.
The difficulty you may face if you try and ration exactly what you ask to be copied is there are still likely to be other sheets outside these that could be of significant interest. Typically there are the 'Field Return of other Ranks' sheets of which there could be quite a few but it is in these that you will see other ranks named if say they have gone on a course, or to a medical facility. Also some of my fathers unit diaries have pretty detailed Situation Reports which give a clearer indication of locations, casualties, weather and in particular who exactly they were under the command of so if you are looking to build a big picture, the diary needs to be seen complete to be of the greatest value.
To give you an example my image count of WO170-2622 1503 Artillery Platoon RASC (Hy) January - December 1944 is 136 images including covers but would at a guess been nearer 200 if I had copied all the monthly Field Return sheets as in the case of this diary, I only copied the pages where my fathers name appeared.
Sorry if that doesn't give you a clear way to progress unless perhaps the person who will do the copying is able and willing to effectively filter what they copy and perhaps read the field return sheets to see if your person of interest gets mentioned and copy if lucky.
Any queries, I'll still try and help but if you decide to park this for the time being, as mentioned before, I'd be happy to copy these on a later visit but unfortunately no immediate plans.

 

Hello Graham,
I am still keen to progress with looking into this so I think I will ask for a copy of the 1574 Platoon (RASC) WO 169/12083 1943 June-Dec diary as dad disembarked Sicily in July 1943. This should give me a good feel for what I can get and be at a reasonable cost. I can then follow up later with the others as needed. Incidentally a thought crossed my mind - would there have been names listed of soldiers allocated to the ship transporting them recorded anywhere?
Many thanks Mike

 

I think that would be the best diary to start with.
Re your query about names. Apart from the Field Return sheets naming other ranks, which, as the pages are headed, 'whose return to the unit is especially requested' - they wanted good men back and not 'lost' in a reinforcement unit you will be unlikely to find any names let alone a list linking them, to a ship but it would be fantastic if this diary was an exception.
What I would like to think you will find is the name of the ship they sailed on and it may then be worth looking at this site for further detail of the convoy.
ConvoyWeb
Also the Husky Order of Battle suggest that unit was part of the Canadian forces so that will be interesting to see if it has any information to support that.

 

Hello Graham,
I now have the war diary I wanted, it is great information! It does contain the name of the ship they sailed on (Convoy Herrick I HMT Batory) and he is mentioned in the December 1943 Sick and Casualty listing as below. Do you know what "216 FD Ambulance" would mean? I think he would have been sick not wounded.
Cheers Mike

 

216 Field Ambulance. that would be the medical unit that treated him.

 

Hello Graham,
I am very pleased with the War Diary I have obtained (1574 Platoon (RASC) WO 169/12083 1943 June-Dec) Can you advise the number of the diary following (1944 Jan onwards) so I can obtain that one now?
If possible what are the numbers of any other diaries to the end of his service please? (would that be up to 1946?)
I have a copy of the "Husky battle" too, which is making very interesting reading!
Thanks Mike