This has been an "ornament" in my parent's house for at least forty years. Today my mother asked if I would like it - of course I said yes; as I walked home with it in my pocket the thought suddenly came to me "do I need a certificate to show it is incalable of firing?" - the triger is clearly inoperable. If anyone is interested the maker is Webley & Scott and is stamped as follows (top to bottom) arrow, crown, B, 68 and (t to b again) 14, crown, GR, crossed lances, P. It also has the serial No 2619 and a roman numeral 3. noel
Very nice Noel. I have a huge German Navy signal pistol which was given to my father by an old shipyard worker. He said it came from a Zeppelin which was brought down over one of the Durham ports, South Shields maybe. Perhaps some one knows of it? I don't know if it needs a certificate but mine has a large firing pin which used to propel king sized marbles some distance. Yours looks to be brass, mine is steel with wooden grips so only needs polishing every few years. Mike
I don't know much about flare pistols and their history, however I say you are amongst the luckiest around to be given such a wonderful gift. I hope you can find the history of this weapon. I also hope you gave your mother a kiss.
Hi Noel ! Thanks for giving me a chance to regurgitate this tale about my own experiences with the flare pistol I last spoke about it here: http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/weapons-technology-equipment/23166-question-german-flare-pistol.html and for those among you who can't be bothered to follow links I now reproduce it below. Start off by clicking on this link to see both a German flare pistol and it's British counterpart: Flare (Verey) Pistols & Signal Pistols of the World <http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-weapons/signal-pistols.htm> Next, see the story I posted on the BBC WW2 People's War Archives: Quote: The time was late 1946. My current position was that of Tech Corporal for A Squadron, 4th Queen’s Own Hussars. As such, I was responsible for all the ‘Technical’ stores in the Squadron which included, Tanks, Armoured Cars, Motor Vehicles of all description and the spares included thereof. I knew that I was shortly due to be released from the Army under the current Python scheme that enabled men who had served more than 3 years 9 months abroad to be sent home and released from the forces. Understandably, I was concerned that nothing should hinder my release and ‘nothing’ included any shortfalls in the equipment that I had previously signed for. For some time now I had been training a young Lance Corporal to take over my place and I’d given him the task of checking the quantities of all the spares held on our Store Truck against the inventory for the same holdings. One day he reported to me that we were one verey light pistol short of the six that we were supposed to be holding according to the manifest. The verey light pistols were held as part of a tank’s small arms store and were used, in emergencies, to either send a pre-arranged message or identify the tank’s position to other squadron members. I had even used one myself in front line action some months earlier. The short story is that I was one pistol short and I had to do something about it. Amongst my ‘un-official’ spares was a German very light pistol, very much the same size as it’s British counterpart but un-mistakeably different to the eye. Some hard and quick thinking was called for. I solved the problem by covering all the pistols in axle grease then wrapping them up with strips of oilskin so that only the registration number was visible. The German pistol soon had it’s own number erased and replaced by the ‘correct’ British number and the six pistols were left hanging up on adjacent hooks. Not long after this event we had an un-scheduled inspection by a top-brass Brigadier who inspected all of the Regimental stores, including my own stores truck. He clambered up the wooden stairs of the truck and with his aide-de-camp sniffed around the stores that were on display. His eyes caught the very light pistols and he demanded to know what these mystery parcels were. I explained that experience had taught me that the pistols were soon affected by corrosion and so I had covered them in heavy grease but left the numbers visible for quick inspection. "Bloody good idea Corporal !" he said and telling his sidekick to "make a note of that will you" he soon, to my great relief, clambered back down the stairs. Almost sixty years after the event I still wonder whatever happened when the pistols were eventually un-wrapped and the cuckoo in the nest was revealed ! I also wonder if the rest of the units in the Division ever had to wrap all their Verey light pistols in grease !! If I can trust my memory, you had to "break" the gun to drop the cartridge in, then cock the hammer, point the pistol skyward and squeeze the trigger to fire it. The hammer would then ignite the cartridge and "whoosh" it would fly !!!!!!! Looking at this article again I see that I failed to expand on the only time I had seen a flare pistol being used in action. It was while I was in the line with the 4th QOH and SSM Busty Thomas, my tank commander, had managed to get himself lost on the battlefield as dark had fallen. We had got our tracks entangled with barbed wire and had been obliged to spend time getting rid of the horrible stuff. By the time we had finished the Squadron had gone swanning off, it was dark and we were lost. On our 19 set, Busty asked someone to send off a flare so that we could see where we were. This was done twice, to no avail, until on the third round being fired we looked in the exact opposite direction and spotted, with much relief, it ascending heavenward Ron
Sorry to add a downer to the thread, but you certainly do need a Firearms Certificate for those flare pistols. The fact that the trigger may or not be inoperable is of no relevence. For it to be de-activated it must comply with Home Office rules (blocked barrel and chamber, ground down firing pin etc.) and have a Proof House Certificate. In fact, a more zealous police force might construe them as Section 5 Prohibited Weapons, being a smooth barreled firearm with a barrel less that 28 inches. They need to be de-activated properly to be legal. However, on a more cheerful note, the markings are: III - Mark III version of the pistol Broad Arrow - Government ownership mark Crown B 68 - Acceptance mark by Government Inspector No 68 based in Birmingham (Home of Webley & Scott) '14 - 1914 GR crossed pennants P - Georgius Rex Proof mark after firing proof load of lead shot. Picture attached of the label for a packet of proof rounds. Regards TonyE
If you want to get it legal get in touch with the london proof house The Proof House or Birmingham Proof House Birmingham Gun Barrel Proof House Museum Ammunition Test England UK Give them a call they are helpfull. Explain what you have and they will tell you how to properly disarm it. This can be very cheeply done by any one skilled with the use of a drill, angle grinder and welder. Or you can get the house to do it but you will be paying 'engineers' rates. you then need to arrange for it to be inspected, stamped and certified. If you get the gun to them, the certificate is about £35. It could be argued that if you have disarmed it in accordance with the requirements, then a certificate is not needed, but a certificate makes life much easier of you are chalenged by the police or want to sell it. hope this helps
