Effective Generals.

A British General that I have not seen mentioned as yet is General Richard O'Connor. He was responsible for the great British victories in the Western Desert in 1940/41, in which his troops utterly destroyed the Italian 10th Army, a force many times larger than his own.

He was captured by a chance German patrol, and sent to a POW camp, only to escape in the winter of 1943 and make his way back to the UK, where he was given command of the British VIII Corps prior to the invasion.

He clashed with Montgomery, and as a result found himself in India under Auchinleck. After the war he became Adjutant General to the army, only to clash with Montgomery again.

Montgomery may have been an able commander, but his personality was questionable.

If you can find a copy of "The Forgotten Victor" by John Baynes, a biography of O'Connor, you will find it to be an interesting read.

 

A British General that I have not seen mentioned as yet is General Richard O'Connor. He was responsible for the great British victories in the Western Desert in 1940/41, in which his troops utterly destroyed the Italian 10th Army, a force many times larger than his own.

He was captured by a chance German patrol, and sent to a POW camp, only to escape in the winter of 1943 and make his way back to the UK, where he was given command of the British VIII Corps prior to the invasion.

He clashed with Montgomery, and as a result found himself in India under Auchinleck. After the war he became Adjutant General to the army, only to clash with Montgomery again.

Montgomery may have been an able commander, but his personality was questionable.

If you can find a copy of "The Forgotten Victor" by John Baynes, a biography of O'Connor, you will find it to be an interesting read.

He was discussed on another thread with a different question and came out on top.

Read it here:

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/war-north-africa-mediterranean/3264-who-best-british-commander.html?highlight=O%27connor#post59185

 

Ah, thank you. I wasn't aware of that earlier thread, glad to see that I'm not alone in my estimation of O'Connor.

I'll read the other thread now........

 

monty.sorry i cant type too well,i snapped my neck and i can only use 1 finger.

 

a.v.m broadhurst.lee

 

I would go along with Alanbrooke - Monty and Slim as being the best contributors - the worst had to be unfortunately all American - Clark - Fredendal - Lucas- and Brereton !

 

I would go along with Alanbrooke - Monty and Slim as being the best contributors - the worst had to be unfortunately all American - Clark - Fredendal - Lucas- and Brereton !

I won't disagree with you on these names as being less than adequate. Lloyd Frededall was out of his element as a combat comander but he was successful as training commander back in the states. I guess you have to find what you are good at and stick to it.

 

I must object to Zukhov's inclusion, or any other Russian /Soviet General.....

One only has to look at the disasters, of which Zukhov was directly responsible for, and the fact that his travelling roadshow was well known for 'stabilizing' a front by the expediant of deportation and execution.

Any General who claims competancey based on these actions are pulling the wool over our eyes....


Do you honestly think that the reputations of people like Patton or Eisenhower would have survived the excreble behaviour of Zukhov and freinds....

And what about the twin 'pocket' battles of Yyazma and Bryansk....?

Not only was Zukhov surprised in the most important battle he ever fought, but the majority of his troops were surrounded in these two pockets.....there was simply nothing left to bar the way to Moscow....

Had not the weather intervened....

ANY inclusion of Soviet Generals in a Best List is erronious.....in my humble view...

 

As for sttrictly the best, I tend to agree with 'Military History Quarterly' Magazine, which rates EISENHOWER as the greatest general of all time.....

"...Few generals make strategy....Great ones do. "

Their comments are very persusive, when you consider Eisenhower engineered the Allied/NATO Cold War voctory as well as sterling service in WW2.

 

let us collect all the jerry generals monty knocked about.i will start. field marshal erwin rommel,twice.field marshal walter model in normandy.field marshal von kluge in normandy.general ritter von thoma in africa.there are a couple,please include army commanders,corps commanders,and divisional commanders.do not list british generals though,that is not cricket.please try to list where they were knocked about as well.yours very sincerely,lee.

 

Lets also find out who kicked Monty's Behind in 1940 as well shall we??? As I recall he was involved in the glorious victory called Dunkirk!!!! LOL!!!!

 

I must object to Zukhov's inclusion, or any other Russian /Soviet General.....

One only has to look at the disasters, of which Zukhov was directly responsible for, and the fact that his travelling roadshow was well known for 'stabilizing' a front by the expediant of deportation and execution.

Any General who claims competancey based on these actions are pulling the wool over our eyes....


Do you honestly think that the reputations of people like Patton or Eisenhower would have survived the excreble behaviour of Zukhov and freinds....

And what about the twin 'pocket' battles of Yyazma and Bryansk....?

Not only was Zukhov surprised in the most important battle he ever fought, but the majority of his troops were surrounded in these two pockets.....there was simply nothing left to bar the way to Moscow....

Had not the weather intervened....

ANY inclusion of Soviet Generals in a Best List is erronious.....in my humble view...
I disagree about your estimation. The Russians face 80% of the Wehrmacht at all times and won. And it wasnt to do with Human Waves. Their equipment was every bit as good as the West. I'll take a T-34 over an M4 any day, and an IL-2 over a Typhoon in the Ground Attack role. Indeed the Sturmovik was so good that it was used as inspiration for the development of the US "warthog" ground attack aircraft 30 years later!!!!
Have a look at Operation Bagration, the liberation of the Balkans and Eastern Europe and study some of the campaigns and you may not be inclined to make such a sweepeing statement. As for your assertion about the weather intervening, dont forget that there were two sides and both fought in the same weather. Someone has been reading too many German Generals self-serving biographies methinks!!!

 

our monty performed a wonderul textbook fighting withdrawal,absolute wizard.you also have to remember funky dj that bernard was only a divisional commander at that time.yours very sincerely,lee.

 

As for sttrictly the best, I tend to agree with 'Military History Quarterly' Magazine, which rates EISENHOWER as the greatest general of all time.....

"...Few generals make strategy....Great ones do. "

Their comments are very persusive, when you consider Eisenhower engineered the Allied/NATO Cold War voctory as well as sterling service in WW2.

Isn't Military History Quarterly an American Magazine? The knocks on Eisenhower was that 1.) some of his operational plans were not the best (eg. attack on "Sfax" Tunisia) 2.) His failure to recognise that the capture of the Scheldt was much more important than the capture of Antwerp. (This is sometimes blamed on Monty, but as overall commander Eisenhower was ultimately responsible) 3.) he was also involved in the American planning (under Marshall's direction) for the landing in France 1942 (Sledgehammer) which would have been a blunder of HUGE proportions! He was honest enough to admit after the war (in light of events in "Overlord") that a 1942 landing in France was overly optimistic, and would have been a major disaster. But hindsight is 20/20, it is the great commander that can realize the probable outcomes BEFORE the operation is attempted

In my mind no Allied Strategic commander can compare with Gen. Alan Brooke.

It was his push for the "MED" strategy that prepared the way for a landing to succeed in France 1944. He had served with armoured units pre-war, and his experience & quick thinking probably did the most to save the British army at Dunkirk. That was also where he learned the hard lessons of Army/Navy/Air power relationships. When others (like Churchill, Marshall etc)would propose trying an opposed landing without adequate air cover, he understood the difficulties involved.

 

another german general monty knocked about was general hans-jugen von arnim,in the tunisian campaign.yours very sincerely,lee.

 

you also have to remember funky dj that bernard was only a divisional commander at that time.yours very sincerely,lee.
Yes he was Lee but he still got "knocked about" a bit by the Wehrmacht and thats no excuse. You have to remember that Monty wasnt perfect. I seem to recall a place called Arnhem where Monty got "knocked about a bit" too. If you're claiming Monty was the architect of victory in Normandy then he also stands as the Commander who didnt break through to the Paras at Arnhem.

 

another german general monty knocked about was general gunter blumentritt,i believe closing up on the ruhr,ah yes i remember now,i think blackcock was the operations name.please correct me if i am wrong.funky dj, if you look at my posts about operation m/g,you will see my opinions.but tony hill,a high ranking british officer in the 1st airbourne div said on t.v;i think operation mg was germany,s greatest defeat;something like that anyway.yours very sincerely,lee.

 

earlier in this thread someone was on about a book called armageddon,slagging off our monty.was that not written by hastings.rather ironic that,sounds like tedder.how many copies do you think he wants to sell in the u.s.a. bloody traitor,yours very sincerely,lee.

 

another german general monty knocked about was general gunter blumentritt,i believe closing up on the ruhr,ah yes i remember now,i think blackcock was the operations name.please correct me if i am wrong.funky dj, if you look at my posts about operation m/g,you will see my opinions.but tony hill,a high ranking british officer in the 1st airbourne div said on t.v;i think operation mg was germany,s greatest defeat;something like that anyway.yours very sincerely,lee.
Tony Hill is wrong. There were at least 5 other operations that were greater defeats Lee and most of them didnt involve the British Army, I say British because the Army Commanded by Montgomery did not just have Englishmen!!! There were Australian, New Zealanders, Canadians, Poles, Irish, Indian yes quite a few non Englishmen.

Now on to those other operations that were bigger than Market Garden: Well we had:

Operation Bagration

Normandy

Tunisia

Stalingrad

Kursk

Guess what?? None of those were by the English alone Lee!!!!

Max Hastings wrote Armageddon and by the way Lee there is nothing wrong with being critical of your own side, its not traitorous, its reasoned. If you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

 

general georg von bismark was given a very severe knocking about by monty in africa if my memory serves me correctly.and i was trying to quote an officer of the first airboune division.i think he does have a valid point though.yours very sincerely,lee.