Booty, Looting etc.

Phaethon-
Don't take it too hard - I was just joking......but at the same time - those Guards - you just had to watch them - all the time - but then they were usually bigger than we were - then there was the chap who sold a knocked out Panther to a newly arrived American anti-tank Officer whose unit had never seen a German tank- traded it for two massive cartons of cigarettes - Naples was the Black Market town for the whole of Italy - good place to stay clear of.....we had two men in our squadron
who were charged with impersonating M.P's for a while - and threatening to close down the brothels of Bone - IF they didn't get some "favours" - they were given a really tough sentence - seven days CB !

Cheers

 

The public wants to know more

 

... I do know one story about the Brothels of Tunis, where an officer went to shut one down, and found his entire platoon in there. That story probably *wont* be making the book.

Interesting to hear about the sale of a tank, makes you wonder what else could be sold... probably anythign not nailed down. I'm not sure why but it reminds me of a story about a Tank dump in Forli where the germans had left a large collection of armour. A small child climbed inside, and (the gun still being loaded) accidentally blew a large hole in the AMGOT building across the square.

 

Last year, on a thread to do with the Willy's Jeep, I posted the following piece.

If this thread has now started to expand to bring in matters that are nearer to the "Black Market" then I think that this has some revelance:

I've written before about my brief love affair with the Willys Jeep but another strong memory comes to mind about the Jeep's value to various Armies, during and after WW2.

My last year overseas was spent at Opicina near Trieste and right on the Jugoslav border.

In the evenings, if we didn’t want to go into Trieste itself ,we would use one of the local bars which had a mixed clientele of civilians and British servicemen.

One night I was in the bar with a few friends and got drawn into a conversation between them and two civilians who were sharing our table, during which it became fairly obvious we were being propositioned as to our willingness to sell any Army goods.

To my annoyance, someone revealed to the civvies that I was a Tech Corporal of a Tank Squadron and, as such, was involved in the control of vehicles and spares.

The attention of the civvies immediately switched to me and I was bluntly asked if I could supply any vehicle parts and particularly Jeep parts.

I was happy to point out that I was a devout coward who valued my Army position far too much to be involved in any such shenanigans and, even more importantly for me, was just about to go home after nearly four years overseas service.

I was, however, sufficiently intrigued to want to know who these gentlemen were and in minutes they openly admitted that they were with the Jugoslav Forces and were desperately looking for Jeep parts, as the British had stopped supplying them.

When one of them said they were in the market for an actual working Jeep I openly laughed and said "Even if someone was prepared to sell you a Jeep you would never be able to get it over the border because of all the road blocks"

He laughed back at me and said " The Jeep would be driven just round the corner, stripped down to its smallest parts and literally carried over the hill to the other side where it would be re-assembled and driven away!"



Ron

 

What I didn't write then, for whatever reaon, was the fact that before the owner of the flat appeared on the scene my co-helper, who's name I fortunately can no longer remember, produced a jacknife from his pockets and proceeded to cut a painting out of its frame.

When he saw me looking at him with obvious distaste he said "I send them home to my wife marked as a gift" so he had obviously done this before.

Not that I approve of this, quite the opposite, but if he didn't do it someone else would...

 

Not that I approve of this, quite the opposite, but if he didn't do it someone else would...

Quite. Why should that individual not be the one to 'profit' - the basis of thinking?

I don't believe that this subject is quite as black and white as some are making out. Under normal circumstances 'liberating' or 'looting' is wrong but these were not normal circumstances.

Besides, where do you draw the line? Some men simply wanted to line their slit treches with mattresses, others wanted to take rather more than that.

 

I should post this in "what are you reading", but something comes up in the book that disturbs me.

I am reading "Foot Soldier" by Roscoe Blunt. It's his story of the last 6 months of the war. He is quite proud of the number of trophies he aquired during the war. Most of them from dead Germans. I suppose asking a live one for his Iron Cross would be rather interesting.

Blunt is not shy in telling his story of rummaging through dead Germans possessions and sending them home.

The question is, how wide spread was this practise? I can understand taking weapons from a dead person, but pulling off rings and claiming other person belongings is a bit much for me to comprehend.

ooppps
how does one edit the title? Should be hunting

 

Kevin

I should post this in "what are you reading", but something comes up in the book that disturbs me.


You could have posted it here
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/veteran-accounts/27340-booty-liberating-just-old-fashioned-looting.html

With regards to :
how does one edit the title? Should be hunting

The mods once told us that you could edit the title if you did it early enough in your posting, hopefully you'll get an answer so that we can all know

 

thanks. I did a search for looting, but nothing came up

 

I shouldn't think too many people would own up to stealing from the dead, for that is what it is so I doubt if it could be determined how wide spread it was. No soldier I ever knew even mentioned such a thing. Theft is theft and when committed on a dead person somehow makes it disgusting. No doubt some people would attempt to justify such a dispicable act but they would earn my contempt, not that that would bother someone who would commit such an act.

 

War should probably be considered a different setting than everyday life where 'stealing from a dead person' indeed has a negative connotation. As for WW2, you will actually find it being mentioned in several books (no matter what front or nationality). I have no clue on how widely spread it was, but the fact that soldiers openly talk about it would suggest it wasn't considered a despicable act per se.

 

Shooting livestock because of hunger and shooting because of deserting are one thing, but cutting off a finger so that someone can take a ring is something else.

 

Why?

One is theft and the other is murder. Would I be allowed to do that now?

The dead don't need anything, do they? What about their boots or coat, is that OK if someone needed them?

I think KevinC was pointing out that while one could be considered necessary for survival, stealing a ring isn't. Cutting off fingers, hands or feet to steal doesn't seem to have been all that uncommon tho, judging by how often it's mentioned.

As for the stealing and plundering in general: As long as it didn't threaten the discipline of a troop, it was more or less accepted. At least that's how things in the Wehrmacht were. Pretty much anything was fine for them (on the Eastern front anyway) as long as it posed no danger to the "Manneszucht", the discipline of the troop.

 

DBF;
You can offer up rather silly comparisons but there is no escaping the fact it is theft. As for offering a caveat, If it were a case of saying thank you to a bunch of thieves and grave robbers I wouldn't give them the time of day, let alone thanks, you obviously feel otherwise. I suppose by the same yardstick rape and pillaging is o.k. The points you rather ridiculously compare are not the points KEVIN was referring too, as well you should know. Those acts are disgusting and that you should attempt to justify them is a slur on the vast majority of soldiers who fought and maintained their self respect.

As for OWEN: Likewise my comparison comment to DBF. Gathering intelligence is one thing, robbing the dead is another. Your childish comment about not needing them is offensive. Does not an enemy soldier have family who would want personal items?